Join us in our encounter with the one and only UFO Phil!  An “experiencer” since early childhood, Phil shares his philosophy and alien-inspired music.

Note, in case you didn’t notice, Jim’s tongue is firmly in cheek on this one.  Enjoy!

Check out Phil’s music and site at UFOPhil.com

Thanks Phil!

A phantom boy who brings mystery…and possibly healing, a UFO sighting and a listener who died and lived to tell about it on this Campfire!

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They support us, please support them! Of course, I am talking about our show sponsor Audible.com
With over 85,000 downloadable titles it is a great way to get your spoken word fix!

This week we featured Catching Fire

As a Campfire listener you can get this or another free audiobook at audiblepodcast.com/campfire

-Dreamcatcher Entertainment-

New York area listeners, check out these plays, part of the Ghost Light Series, that are perfect for the Halloween season!

The Death of Emily Webster: October 22-30, Saturdays 3pm, Sundays 3pm

East in Red: October 20-30, Thurs-Sat 8:00pm, Sun 7:00pm

WHERE: Roy Arias Theatre Center; 300 W. 43rd St – 5th Floor

For more information, go to dreamcatcherentertainment.biz

Brad Steiger

Legendary author Brad Steiger returns to the Paranormal Podcast to discuss his latest book on UFOs.  It really is an exhaustive look at the phenomena.  We chat about how UFOs and the general paranormal field are very much intertwined.

You can check it out at Amazon.com:

Real Aliens, Space Beings, and Creatures from Other Worlds

Real Aliens, Space Beings, and Creatures from Other Worlds – KINDLE

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INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT

Note From Jim: We monitor our transcripts as closely as possible for any typographical errors; however, these may happen from time to time…for the final authority on what was said during a podcast please refer to the audio file.

JIM HAROLD: … I’m talking of course about Brad Steiger, and if any of you have followed the paranormal for any time at all, you know that name.  He has written, I believe, over 170 books, he’s been on about every talk show, radio and TV that you could possibly imagine.  He’s been honoured in various and sundry ways.  Last time I checked I think you had over 17 million copies in print; but then again, that’s probably even gone up since then.  I know since 1956 Brad Steiger has been bringing us the paranormal.  We’re so pleased to welcome him back to the Paranormal Podcast to talk about his latest book:  Real Aliens, Space Beings, and Creatures from Other Worlds. Brad, welcome back.

BRAD STEIGER: Well thanks Jim.  I always enjoy coming on your program.  It’s just… we kind of sit, and just talk, and it’s enjoyable for me.  I like your style, brother.

JIM HAROLD:  Well, thank you. I like yours, too.  And this book, I’ve got to ask — somebody might ask this question, and I think you have a really unique vantage point to look at these things, and you’ve kind of seen and heard it all when it comes to UFOs and aliens — is there anything new under the sun from your point of view, when it comes to real alien space beings and creatures from other worlds?

BRAD STEIGER:  Excellent question, and that was the motive for writing the book.  When you have a field as vast as UFO research, which I see, and Sherry agrees, as largely involved in the paranormal, as well, they are many ways one in the same.  And so is there anything new?  What we wanted do is, because people just coming to the field, just getting into it, will read about someone sees the greys and abduction experiences and they say “wow! This is really new”.  So,  I don’t know, being a history buff and recognizing how most Americans get their history from movies, whether it’s the Civil War or World War 2 or UFO research, we thought — we really feel the obligation, the mission if I may be presumptuous, to have each chapter begin with, “the beginning”, because no one knows where that is.  Let’s say 1947, 0r 1940, or 1840, or 40 AD, and bring it forward until we are in, when we had to make our final deadline, 2010.  So each chapter, Jim, does exactly that. It gives you as complete as you can be, in one volume.  And as people have been saying, “wow, this is really a big, fat book”… yes, it had to be, to get all this information in, and that’s where people are really appreciating it, because if you’d never heard about UFOs and you didn’t know when all this started, this gives you like a panoramic historical approach to the phenomena.  If you’ve been or consider yourself well informed, and we have those who have reviewed the book who have been in it almost as long as we have, who have said, ‘this is an encyclopedic, progressive approach to the subject, and is valuable whether just getting into the UFOs or have been in it for 30 years. It’s here in a progressive way for reference and for study.”

JIM HAROLD:  Really, I mean I have a shelf full of books that people have sent me over the last several years doing this program, and if I had to pick one UFO book, this would be the one that I would pick, and I’ll tell you why:  exactly what you said.  There’s a cross section in here; Roswell… everything from Roswell, association with the Apollo landings, and so forth and so on, I mean it just runs the gamut.  I do agree with you, it’s 370 pages and it’s not triple-spaced here, it’s dense text and lots of nice illustrations.  It looks like a fantastic book.
You know, another thing; because of your — and by the way, I should have mentioned this book as been co-written by your wife, Sherry Hansen-Steiger, I neglected to say that, so I wanted to make sure to get that in there — the other thing I would say is, not only is there the question “is there anything new under the sun”, the question is, how has this field, what have been the big developments since you started in 1956.  I’m sure there have been many many of them, but what are some of the key developments that you have seen with UFOs, aliens, and how we look at them in the last 50-something years?

BRAD STEIGER: Well, that’s one of those questions, and thank you for the kind words about the book, by the way.  That is the question that we’re trying to really focus on, because now I think, Jim, we have to say, well, okay, this has been happening all this time. What does it mean for us?  What does it mean for us as a species? Are there aliens coming across the cosmos from other worlds? When did they arrive? Have they always been here? Are we products?  We hear currently a lot of researchers talking about hybrids.  Maybe they’re interbreeding.  Maybe this started 100,000 years ago.  Maybe it started a billion years ago.

JIM HAROLD:  Maybe we’re all hybrids.

BRAD STEIGER:  Exactly!  Maybe we’ve met the aliens, and they are us.  So that’s, at least, a point for a theory, and then we have to say, if we’re starting now, I mean, how many people do they have to abduct?  How many people do they have to contact, if they’ve spent all this time and all this energy, and I suppose they have some monetary system, spent all their monetary, you know, whether it’s kumquats or pine cones, they’ve spent that getting here, so why don’t they make contact?  The idea of contact might be superfluous, because maybe it’s an inter-knowing.  Maybe it’s a mystical experience. We tend to look at the majority of experiences as individual mystical experiences,  because they are so mystical in their orientation. Now, even the contactees, which I particularly have been following since the early 60s, and Sherry in her capacity, with Doctor J. Allen Hynek, she was assigned going through the contactee information.  What is the message?  It’s largely a semi-religious message, or it’s ‘take care of your planet’. Again, it kind of beggars reality to think of a species, an extra-terrestrial species, coming here simply to give us a little sermonette. Or to advise us to get along.  Now this is something that the great teachers and avatars throughout history have been emphasizing.  So then you have a whole idea platform of have the prophets throughout history made contact with this intelligence?  We come down to the very focus of all this, what do we mean when we say ‘alien intelligence’?  Not denying that we are alone… excuse me.  We believe there is a possibility of life in outer space.  Okay, we’re not arguing that.  That’s not the question of what we are dealing with and have been dealing with throughout all of our sentient history as a species. What is this alien intelligence that makes contact with us?   That seeks to guide us?  That gives us information and is seemingly pulling us into the future?  And then, are there good guys and bad guys among the alien intelligences that contact us?  That is really the basic question that we try to face in the book.  You ask about things, moments in UFO history, and it’s very interesting to see how we simply replicate some of the carbon copy, going back to earliest days of sentient species, when we first began saying that we had contact with angels, we had contact with demons, and it seems to be almost the same prototypical drama, a prototypical pageant play that keeps repeating itself with these generations.

JIM HAROLD:  Well, it is a fascinating topic with a fascinating guest. Brad Steiger is on the program tonight, and we’re so glad to have him.  We’ll talk to him more right after this on the Paranormal Podcast.

…

Well, we’re back on the Paranormal Podcast.  Our guest tonight is the legendary — and that word is often over-used and misused, but certainly not in this case — Brad Steiger.  He is… well, he’s done over 170 books, and his latest book is Real Aliens, Space Beings, and Creatures from Other Worlds.
Now, Brad, when you think of the UFO phenomena, one word comes to mind.  At this point, in the last 20 – 25 years, it’s been that of Roswell, but unless you want to talk about Roswell, I don’t necessarily want to get into that too much, because we always talk about that. Not you and I, but in general — everybody talks about it.  Although you do an admirable job of covering it here in the book. But what stories do you have in this book that you think may be on the level of Roswell, but under-appreciated  in the UFO community?  Or are there any like that?

BRAD STEIGER: I think there are experiences, and I choose to call them that, that are integral to the development.  I think we have to see, first, Roswell as a kind of portraying the cast of characters.  Based on the cast of characters we’re going to be dealing with, we’re going to be dealing with: a government that many people are convinced are hiding things from us, the truth; we are presented with what became a pejorative term for anyone in research, “little green men,” which is a term that I don’t think anyone ever called them “little green men”, but they did call them “little humanoids in green jumpsuits”, so that’s where the “little green men” came from; and then we have of course the researchers who are valiantly trying to get to the truth.  This presents us with the format that will be employed throughout, whether it’s the  Betty and Barney Hill… now there people say we had our first abduction, not true.  We go way back in having abduction.  We have contact experiences, but no, that goes way back to the 1800s, where people are making contact with individuals that seem to come from light and speak to them.  We have mediums who began speaking to them, who claim to be from outer space.  In the nascent Nazi party as it was beginning to formulate its concept of Aryan supremacy, we had entities channeling from Aldebaran through a group of female mediums, and we have illustrations of them. We have pictures, and they had their artists draw them.  And they were, you know, by today’s standards as we think of, well, they always look kind of strange and out of context, but these were really attractive women, and they began channeling — and Hitler was in the group, and Goering, and a number of them were the members of the Vril society, the were members of the Black Sun, that was their symbol, which became then the swirling Nazi symbol, which they borrowed from the Aztec and other cultures, which is simply the changing, and this was the symbol then which became the swastika, which we are familiar with.  So we have channeling going all the way back to the beginning of the Nazi party, claiming to be from outer space. We’ve had this consistently.
Then we have the counter.  Equal to Roswell, I put the Philadelphia Experiment.

JIM HAROLD:  Ah!  Fascinating.

BRAD STEIGER:  Now, here we have — now this is… Sherry and I, we, for a time, we were gone three weeks out of the month lecturing, for many many years.  And because I kind of stoked the fires of the Philadelphia Experiment back in 1967, when I wrote an article for Saga Magazine about the Philadelphia Experiment.  It had kind of lain forgotten for many years, and then as a result of that article I was flooded with letters saying “I’m glad you’re bringing this up, because my father has been locked away since that time, he was on board”, and then there was, “my son has been in an asylum” and on and on… “my uncle disappeared and we never saw him again.”  This lead then to a publisher saying ‘good grief, you have to do a book on it’, so we did, The New UFO Breakthrough:  the Allende Letters.  Well, then this was based on the Varo letters, now it seemed when Robert Goerman found out the he was living, I remember he wrote to me and said ‘what about this’ and I think he  said, ‘what is the address you have for Carl Allen, or Carlos Allende’? and I gave it to him, and that was his home town.  So he went there, and there was the family, the Allen family.  It seemed to be then totally exposed that Carl Allen had faked this, but then on his death bed, someone sent to me information that on his death bed he said, “no, no it wasn’t a hoax.  I really saw it.”  So Sherry and I still to this day, but whenever we went out we talked to people who claimed that some member of their family was in this, the Philadelphia Experiment.  It’s kind of like a Trojan horse, you know? It’s kind of like… it lures you into the field, it gets people to extend their opinions and sometimes their reputations, and then seems to vanish into nothing.  It’s like a great big suction cup that takes people’s reputations and destroys them as they really get involved in it.

JIM HAROLD:  The thing that I remember, you know, 20 -25 years ago there was a lot of interest.  There was even a major motion picture that came out about this World War 2 era ship that was supposedly made invisible, or cloaked, then supposedly when it rematerialized, wasn’t the gist of it that some crew members were physically fused into the ship itself, and some had gone mad?  I found it fascinating, but all of a sudden, as bright a light as it got, and as popular as it got, it just seemed to go away just as quickly.  I’ve heard very little on it, I’ve been wanting to do a show for years on it, I believe one of the main proponents of it is either very ill or has just passed away.  I can’t remember his name.

BRAD STEIGER:  He’s very very ill. You’re thinking of Al Bielek.  Al Bielek was the man who provided me the information for the article I wrote, that kind of started everything up again.  Now, Al was a good friend and he was an objective scientific researcher. Tim Beckley — Tim Green Beckley, I’m sure you’re familiar with him.

JIM HAROLD:  Yes, he’s been on the show.

BRAD STEIGER: He was planning to do a UFO conference in Phoenix, and I said you really have to have Al Bielek on, he’s living here now.  You know, he comes over, we had him for dinner, you know?  Sherry got to calling him our oldest son, you know? But he’d come over frequently, and we were watching the movie The Philadelphia Experiment, and Al seemed to be really taken by it. Didn’t say anything.  So Tim and Al and I have lunch at a Denny’s, and Tim said, ‘okay, I’ll have you.  I mean, people are still… there’s still some interest in the Philadelphia Experiment.’  Al then gets up on stage, begins his very objective presentation on the Philadelphia Experiment, the physical laws and all of it, was Tesla involved, was Einstein involved, et cetera, and then all of a sudden Sherry, Tim and I are sitting, and our mouths drop, because that’s when Al announces that he was a member of the crew.  He and his brother were on board ship. And he, he moved forward into the future and became Al Bielek, but he really was then an entity from… and we just sat there with our mouths open.  From that time on then, Al literally turned the continent with the story.  He would check in and he would say, “I’ve met family members, they’d recognise me”, and every time we’re thinking, our dear friend, what has happened to him?  He gets this… what seems to be substantiation of his stories, and there were many people who seem to substantiate his story, and we’re really caught with again, a scenario right out of a Hollywood movie, of going back and forth in time, being one person 40 or 50 years ago and being another person today, and everything just seemed to be very convoluted, but again it fits right in with so much of the UFO phenomena.  I was warned when I began, I came to the field from psychical research, but I was warned if you really get in to the UFO research, it’s a magic theatre, and you enter a new reality.

JIM HAROLD:  The thing is, I’ve often said, and again six years is but a drop in the bucket, but six years ago when I started this, I thought, this will be great! I’ll learn all this paranormal stuff, and in 6 – 12 months I’ll have it all figured out. (laughs)  Not so much…

BRAD STEIGER:  Not so much… (laughs)

JIM HAROLD:  Anyhow, you talked about time travel.  In your book, I believe it’s Bruce Goldberg — who has also been on the show — talks about the idea of maybe visitors being not space aliens but time travelers.  What’s your take on that?

BRAD STEIGER: Well, you know Bruce and I go way back, we’re buddies.  We support one another’s research. This is certainly an area that I don’t think can be denied, but yet… I love time travel stories, but I’ve not yet seen one that I satisfies the demands of our reason, our intellect, and the rules of science… I mean, because if you do go back, almost anything you do is going to alter the future, then how to explain if you disappear in the 1860s… there just seems to be so many internal paradoxes.

JIM HAROLD:  Yeah, the grandfather paradox.

BRAD STEIGER:  Yes, the grandfather paradox. And innumerable others.  There’s this great science fiction story where they go back and hunt dinosaurs, but you’re not supposed to step off the path. Well,  someone steps off the path and says, “oh, I only stepped on a little moth or butterfly, that shouldn’t alter anything” and when he comes back to the present, the letter E is not in the alphabet.

JIM HAROLD:  It’s like a rippling.  You don’t know what one action will do, and that’s true in our daily lives.  Just imagine if you put that back thousands and thousands of years ago, and all the permutations of changes that one stepping off the path might very well cause.  What are a couple of your favourite stories in the book?  A couple of things that you discovered or maybe rediscovered while doing it.

BRAD STEIGER: Ah, boy, that’s hard.  Very difficult. I suppose when… the realization that came to me:  timing is everything.  You know that, Jim.  And my first book, Strangers in the Skies, came out in 66, right after Doctor Hynek was in Michigan and said it was swamp gas, all the manifestations were credited to swamp gas, and there was just an enormous reaction from the people in Michigan, who said I can’t … so that put my book in two weeks, it was on the best seller list, because of timing. Because of timing.  So, when that book was out and everywhere and printed overseas, I just got an enormous amount of mail from people claiming contact experiences.  And I set out, because again at this time those of us in research were wrapped around the nuts and bolts aspect of UFOs.  They’ve come, they’ve arrived, they’ve landed.  What we’ve been waiting for as a species is contact… the greatest story in history.  So I was very much involved in that: going out and speaking with contactees.  and then witnessing, sometimes, poltergeist phenomena in their home, for lack of a better term; going to another… being in one farm home in Ohio, and another one in Illinois, and then going to Vancouver Canada, and hearing the people tell the same experience.  And that’s before internet, that’s before radio programs.  That’s before television programs.  So I’m thinking: what’s going on here? I know they don’t know each other, I know they haven’t got in contact with each other.  I’d convinced myself and satisfied myself of that.  And then I began, always the phone would act up.  Check into a hotel at random, find I’d already been registered.  Be walking down the street, a pay phone would ring and ring while I’m standing waiting for the light to change. And then part of me, not being able to resist, picking it up and hearing “Brad, are you there?”  And I would think: what is going on?  I came to see then that, in my opinion, this was the same phenomenon of mediumship that I’d been dealing with.  This is the same… my second big book was on the poltergeist phenomenon, Strange Guests.  This is what I’m writing about in Strange Guests. This is poltergeists, this is hauntings, this is phenomena, this is mystical experience.  Or, is it portraying itself for my benefit? And this became an incredible conundrum.  At the time, a lot of pilots — a lot of farmers who had been pilots in the Korean war — they had been intrigued.  They had raced UFOS.  They’d had UFOs contact them over Korea. So they were interested in my research, living near by. I had the advantage of having a flying farmer take me, fly me there, because they wanted to investigate.  I had people who had been in the service, in the Korean conflict, who again helped me with the research.  We traveled all over, we saw these things, we saw the scorch marks, we saw the lights in the sky, we saw the lights doing incredible things that no craft that we know of could do.  And it seemed to me at that time to be mystical experiences.  It seemed… I couldn’t believe that a sentient civilization would travel all the way to Earth to go into someone’s bedroom and throw their underwear around. To tip tables and break chairs and… I mean, these are aliens doing this?  Or is this then an energy phenomena that we’re dealt with throughout our evolution?

JIM HAROLD:  You come up on something that I’ve talked to other guests recently about.  There’s kind of the Stanton Friedman school, that these are craft and they’re visitors from another planet, then other people are saying — and we love talking to Stanton, he’s a great guest and a great researcher — but there are also other people out there saying, maybe visitors from other dimensions, maybe some kind of spirit portraying themselves.  Maybe something like the Djinn, possibly falsely portraying themselves.  Or poltergeists. Again the poltergeists.  “Little green men” or government experiments aren’t the only explanations.  And then you get into things like Men In Black.  I think in general, most people think that Men In Black are some kind of governmental representatives meant to erase your memory so you forget what you saw.  But what if they’re creatures or spirits or just representing themselves in a way that we can relate to?

BRAD STEIGER:  Right. Exactly.  So I began talking this way and writing this way in the late 60s, and of course was met with all the enthusiasm of being served a mud ball instead of a cupcake.  We were still so much in the nuts and bolts era.  Only a few people, and I had the pleasure of saying to Phil Imbrogno recently, “remember how you laughed when I talked?”  Of course, he’s come to the Djinn and he’s come to the entities and so forth.  And he chuckled and said, “yeah, well we evolve in our thoughts.” And we certainly do.  When we began to go into UFO research again, Sherry and I were walking, going on a nice walk for our exercise, and I said to her, “you know, if we get into this, it is like entering a magic theatre, and we have to resolve now that we love each other very much, and we want that love to continue.  there will be seemingly energies that may try to pull us apart.”  And we just really looked at this, that we were about to enter the magic theatre and we have to be prepared. We have to be as one spirit.  Well, we initiated at that time what Sherry calls our “paranoia night”.  This is when we’re living in Phoenix, and any researcher, anyone from NASA, anyone from anything scientific, we’d invite to our home once a week, and we had quite a group, a very interesting group, that would share these kinds of experiences.  And then we went on the road with lectures and had the most extraordinary experiences.  Which again… to blame it on government spies, to blame it on extraterrestrials… it’s an energy.  You truly enter an alternate reality, that’s the only way I can truly describe it. You have to maintain balance, you have to maintain a spiritual equilibrium, we believe, which is why we practise our spiritual going, which is perhaps not a conventional one, but it keeps us strong and it keeps us focussed and balanced.  And you have to have that if you really go into research.  Now, people ask about Men In Black, and Nick Redfern paid me the tribute of dedicating the book to me, his Men In Black.

JIM HAROLD:  That’s great.  He’s going to be on in a couple weeks to talk about that book.  That’s fantastic.

BRAD STEIGER: Yeah, I was… I mean, I did not know this until I saw the galleys of the book.  And a lot of the things we discussed in his book, and aliens we can’t ignore in a Men In Black type of thing.  But it truly is an incredible aspect, and when it began I was teaching in college then, and people asked me if they’d interfered with me.  They’ve interfered with me in the sense of taking my, at that time, nearly all of my friends away.  They began getting calls, they began getting harassed, until people would say, “I’m sorry, but my wife just doesn’t want me to hang out with you anymore. Doesn’t want me to make contact.”  And I had such incredible sources there, like a naval officer would have sightings while he was in service, and he was giving me information.  Others were giving me information. It was only, fortunately, a couple really hard-nosed tough guys had been in the Rangers, and special op groups and service, who stayed by me, because these were guys who just weren’t afraid of anything. But they got harassed, they got harassed by individuals, bizarre-looking individuals, because of one… a friend of mine’s contact with the police, he’d been a police officer, he took down the license number, and there was no such license number in the bureau, he verified.  Plus the cars that they were driving, he said — and he was very astute mechanically — it was like combination of half a dozen models and makes put together in one.  All these things began to happen.  And one of the experiences that I shared with Nick, a friend of mine I had during the Vietnam conflict, he had been in World War 2 and he wanted to visit his son in Vietnam, which I guess they let parents do at that time, and he stayed in England —  because he’d never been in England — he stayed in London — and he was followed, he’d noticed, by three kind of Asian-looking individuals in black suits.  And they had dark glasses on and they would follow him wherever he went.  He was standing in front of the railroad sign… he was taking a trip up north in England, and they stood there and they asked what time the train came in, and he said “there’s the board right behind you” and he was getting annoyed, who were these guys?  He went back to his hotel one night and looked out and there they were, standing on a corner.  Finally they confronted him on the street and they said, and you have to understand, this is a friend of mine from New Hampshire, who’s in England, going to visit his son in Vietnam, and they came up to him and said, “you know Brad Steiger, don’t you?”  And my friend was completely nonplussed. He said, “Brad’s a friend of mine.”  They said, “tell him, we’ll visit him at Christmas”.  Now he went right back to the hotel and wrote me a long letter, told me all the experiences he’d had and said what they’d promised was a Christmas visit.  Well, unless they were the three wise men in the Sunday school pageant, I wasn’t visited by any three men that I know of that Christmas. But again, it was harassing my friends.  And this guy, again, some people can’t be scared, and others, their children, their wives: “stay away from this Steiger guy. He’s bad news”

JIM HAROLD:  I’ve got to say, I mean, that’s just amazing that halfway across the world they would run into your friend and say, “oh, you know Brad Steiger”, that’s extremely, extremely suspicious.

BRAD STEIGER: Extremely.

JIM HAROLD:  So, we certainly want people to pick up on the book, I think all you have to do is see a little bit of this book to really appreciate it.  It is the… I mean, there’s no possible way we could cover even a small piece of what’s in this book.  I recommend you pick up this book; I’m actually going on a trip and I’m going to take it with me and this is going to be my reading for the trip. Of course, we’ll have links at jimharold.com to your site and to the book on amazon.com, but can you tell folks where they can go on the web if they want to access your site directly?

BRAD STEIGER:  Yes.  We would like people to visit our site.  It’s simply www.bradandsherry.com.  Easy as can be.

JIM HAROLD:  And we certainly recommend that people go there as well to see everything that you are up. And any last words of wisdom for our audience when it comes to the UFO/alien phenomena?

BRAD STEIGER:  I would like to leave people with this, and it’s something Sherry and I believe intensely.  Some people put their tongue in their cheek and sigh, but we mean this seriously.  We feel the UFO enigma, the UFO phenomena, touches each one of us in a very special way.  It is a part of our existence on this planet. We are obviously engaged in some kind of contest with some undefined entities and they obviously know more about the rules to this game than we do. But it does effect each of us in every aspect of our lives.  Stay open in your research. Stay open.

JIM HAROLD:  Words of wisdom from Brad Steiger.  I’ll not add anything more, but thank you for tuning in to this episode of The Paranormal Podcast.

Timothy Green Beckley

We have a wide ranging discussion with Timothy Green Beckley, Mr. UFO!   We talk about everything from the real origins of UFOs, his onetime work in tabloid journalism, and we discuss false prophesy.  You can check out Timothy’s site at ConspiracyJournal.com

Thanks Timothy!

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Bill Birnes

The UFO Hunter himself, Bill Birnes, joins us on this week’s Paranormal Podcast. Jim & Bill talk about various UFO cases, reverse engineering, his current show “Ancient Aliens” and why “UFO Hunters” was taken off the air. You guessed it, the UFO Hunters uncovered too much!

You can check out Bill’s magazine and other projects at UFOMag.com

Thanks Bill!

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For paranormal content you can’t get anywhere else check out Jim’s Paranormal Plus Club @ JimHarold.NET

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INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT

Note From Jim: We monitor our transcripts as closely as possible for any typographical errors; however, these may happen from time to time…for the final authority on what was said during a podcast please refer to the audio file.

JIM HAROLD: … and I can’t think of a better guest to talk about the subject [of UFOs] than tonight’s, and I’m honored to have him on the show.  I’m talking, of course, about William J. Birnes, and he’s a bonified triple-threat.  A New York Times Best Selling author, a publisher of UFO Magazine, and as many of you may know him, a TV star in his own right who headed up the crew at UFO Hunters for The History Channel.  Of course, now they call themselves History, but I still call them The History Channel. He holds a law degree and received his PhD from New York University in 1974 and I could not be more pleased to have him on the program.  Doctor Birnes, thank you for being on the Paranormal Podcast.

BILL BIRNES: Well, it’s my pleasure.  Thank you for inviting me.

JIM HAROLD: Let me ask you this:  with that kind of erudite background, a law degree, a PhD, what in the world got you interested in UFOs?  How did you get into the field?

BILL BIRNES: Well, one, I actually had my own sighting back in the 1950s.  When I was a kid in New York City I saw this craft, it was a light, a big circular light, that at night blanketed out the entire sky over our city block.  Obviously, growing up in the 1950s you’re really  growing up in the era, right? The summer of the saucers.  The summers of the saucers.  It’s almost as if every year in the 1950s, some newspaper, somewhere — of course, they treated it with derision and disdain, but nevertheless these were news stories — would carry the story of some UFO sighting. It was UFOs over Washington, and that was in the newspaper. It was in all the major newspapers, and it was in the Movietone newsreels, so you went to see movies like This Planet Earth and Earth vs The Flying Saucers and Invaders from Mars and things like that, you’d be hearing stories and seeing some of the footage of UFOs over Washington DC. So, I mean, you’re growing up in that era. It’s hard not to be interested.

JIM HAROLD:  I know, and I’m of a bit different age — I’m in my early 40s — but I remember being fascinated with it as a kid.  We had our own mini little blip in the 70s, and there seemed to be a lot of interest in the popular culture in it, and also interest in things like the Bermuda Triangle with Charles Berlitz and those types of things.  Now, let’s go through your career as a UFO investigator.  Of course, I think probably most people listening to this program are most familiar with your work on the UFO Hunters program, but tell us how you got into publishing the magazine and where you started your professional engagement with the UFO phenomenon.

BILL BIRNES:  Well, I was and am actually a true crime writer, and when my wife and I were living in Hollywood I was working with a number of… just law enforcement officers, police officers on telling their story, one of whom was the very famous and celebrated Bill Roemer who was the FBI agent in Chicago who broke the big organized crime cartel from the Bonanno family.  One of the places that I was pitching his story to, as ideally a movie or television series on the fiction he was writing, was a motion picture company who was also dealing with — and it was a round-about way of doing it, but a television movie on the fates of the prisoners of war of the Vietnam war era who were kept behind by the Vietnamese.

JIM HAROLD:  I think I saw that… was that a TV movie?  Because I think I saw that.

BILL BIRNES:  There were a number of TV movies on that.  This was not that, but I was hired to write the book.  Basically to edit a book on this, and one of the people we were working with was Colonel Philip Corso who was, as most people know, the person who negotiated operation Little Switch/Big Switch for the United States and President Eisenhower at the end of the Korean War during the armistice.
Well, in subsequent conversations with Corso and the motion picture company, as it was developing the story, he really dropped the bomb that he worked for the government on the R and D in the 1960s and he was in charge of the Roswell debris and bringing the reverse engineering into American industry, and he gave me a copy of the memoir, the biography of his boss, Lieutenant General Arthur Trudeau, also very famous, played by Gregory Peck, I think, but very famous as the general who led the charge up Hamburger Hill in North Korea to rescue his men.  So, I mean, the guy was very reputable, very credible, had a lot of history, and the story about the Roswell debris and the reverse engineering was really a fascinating story.  He was dropping names, dropping devices, and we checked a lot of the circumstantial stuff out, right, and it all checked out.  Indeed, some of the technology he talked about really had a jump start in the 1960s, and he said the jump start came from the fact that he had taken, for his boss, General Trudeau, bits and pieces of the Roswell crash.  Fiber optics, integrated circuitry, a strange memory metal, things like that, he had taken that… oh, a laser cutting tool, he had taken that to various industries and laboratories: IBM Monstanto, AT&T, Bell Labs, and this had been done prior to his own involvement in the late 1940s.  So, I mean, fascinating stuff. I checked it out and the circumstances were there that there probably was some reverse engineering going on, and sure enough, documents he pointed us to existed, and I basically sold the book for the movie company, called The Day After Roswell, they asked me to write the book and became a New York Times best seller, and the people who then owned UFO Magazine came to me, and we did an interview about the book and about Corso, and said, ‘look, we’re in some real financial difficulty here, we really can’t  meet our bills.  It’s a very sad thing. We want to stay in the publishing business.  Do you think the movie company would invest in them?’ Well, the movie company — I set the meeting up — heard their story, and they invested, and said ‘ look, though, for us to do this’ — and I liked these folks, they were very nice folks, good UFO researchers — ‘you would stay on in an advisory capacity. If the magazine ever does well we’ll compensate you, just be around, kind of the emeritus publisher’, and I did, and it didn’t do well.  It suffered under their business management, and ultimately they said, ‘look. We’ll sell it to you if you want it.”  And I bought it.  My wife, who was a professional New York literary editor, took over the magazine, turned it around financially and it began to get successful, and during the course of that, as we began to publish ebooks — electronic books — on various UFO-related topics and paranormal topics, the production company that worked for The History Channel came to me and said ‘would you be part of a show we’re doing on the Russian Roswell?” and of course I knew about that from articles in UFO Magazine, and so to make a long story very short, we did the piece on Russian Roswell for UFO Files for History, which was very successful, had very high ratings.  They asked me back to do something on underwater UFOs, did that… so I did about five UFO Files. The old UFO Files for The History Channel.  It was very successful. Finally, Pat Uskert, who was one of the UFO Hunters, lived in Venice California near us, and he had a UFO sighting over Venice Beach, wrote to my wife again to do an article for the magazine, so she suggested to him, because he said “gee.  I don’t know if it’s a balloon or UFO.  How do you tell?” So Nancy said, “listen.  Why don’t you get a metallic balloon”… you know, one of those birthday balloons?

JIM HAROLD: A Mylar balloon, yeah.

BILL BIRNES: A Mylar balloon. “Why don’t you get one of those, and launch it” — and Pat actually took a video of the UFO that he saw, he ran back to his house — he lived right near the beach — and he took a video, so he had this video of something.  We couldn’t tell, really — what was it, a balloon? A flying saucer? We didn’t know. But it looked intriguing, because it was moving against the wind.  You could see the wind pushing something one way, and here was this object going another way.  Well, everybody knows that sometimes the winds aloft do flukey things, right?  So Nancy said, “look.  Why don’t you get yourself a Mylar balloon, launch it, and then compare the flight of that Mylar balloon with the flight of the object you saw?”  Well, Pat did it, and — this is interesting — he edited the video so that it was a split screen, so you could see the balloon on one screen, and the object that Pat saw and  originally video taped on the other screen. Well, it was so compelling that I’d just done a motion picture, a television motion picture for Hearst Television.  It’s called “When Husbands Cheat” and it still runs today.  It was a motion picture based on a book that I represented in New York, when I was a literary agent in Manhattan, based on a personal story.  So I brought the video and Pat Usker himself to Hearst Television.  And they said, “wow, this is great. Let’s do something called ‘UFO Roadtrip’, get some friends, and why don’t you guys go on the road?” and they did, and shot some video, and ultimately Hearst decided that they were not going to make the television show.  They were getting out of the UFO business.  But the company that was doing UFO Files for The History Channel said to me, “we’d love to see this video and what you think you can do.”  Showed it to them, and they set up one of the UFO segments on USO — you probably saw that as well — one of the UFO segments called “Code Red: Deep Sea UFOs”.  We went out onto Santa Monica Bay in a dive boat, and basically we were trying to find any trace evidence — was there radiation under water?  Was there anything we could find that was trace evidence that maybe there was some kind of inner Redondo Trench or UFO? — of an unidentified submerged object. And of course it was great, because Pat was a dive instructor, a scuba-diving instructor, in the Phillipines, so Pat really had a lot of experience doing scuba diving.  So Pat and his friends were in the water, and the ratings of that particular show were off the chart.  I mean, the network loved it.  So based on that, we put together a pilot.  They saw a lot of promise in the pilot for the show. This is basic TV stuff, right?  You do a pilot, and they saw a lot of promise in the pilot and  based on the pilot they took an order for the first series, 13 episodes, for a show which they then re-named UFO Hunters. And of course, that was how the show started.  It was very successful in the first season.  We enjoyed a lot of success and they renewed us for two more years, and at the end of it I think we went a little too far — a lot too far, actually — with one of our segments on Dulce, New Mexico, showing the hybrids… and of course, a lot of that’s come to be a story in and of itself, of what happened at Dulce, and then the show was transformed, believe it or not, from very intense, interactive, kind of  three amigos UFO Hunters into a show that’s now on I also host called Ancient Aliens.

JIM HAROLD:  Yes.  Ancient Aliens is a fascinating show, because I love the idea that the technology that the ancients enjoyed, pyramids and so forth, may have been given to us by other civilizations.  And we’re going to talk about all of that right after this break on The Paranormal Podcast.

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Well, we are back on the Paranormal Podcast. Our very special guest tonight is William J. Birnes; Bill Burnes, as you know him, the host of Ancient Aliens and also UFO Hunters, and an author, a publisher.  He’s kind of done it all, and is one of the top names in UFO investigations, and he was telling us about this transformation of his career.  Now I do want to get onto that question of the Dulce Base a little bit.  I do a video podcast with my good buddy….every week, and we’ve talked about the Dulce Base phenomena several times on that program. Tell us about that episode, because I remember that disturbing picture of some cross breeding with a human and cattle and things.  Explain to folks what the Dulce Base is, and what its implications may be, because wow! (laughs)

BILL BIRNES: The Dulce Base — first of all, there’s a lot of controversy over whether it’s a base, it’s not a base, real, not real… the Dulce Base — what we’re calling Dulce — is an underground, inside-the-mountain facility run by I-don’t-know-who, okay, in Dulce, New Mexico, on the Jicarilla Appache reservation. There’s a lot of controversy about it… is it really a base?  Is it not a base?  Over the years, the story of the base came to be, real quick, because somebody who identified himself as a former security guard there, named Thomas Castello, said that he was working there and that during his tenure there he saw astounding things in that area.  He saw aliens, extraterrestrials, whether they were reptile ancient aliens, whether they were aliens that looked like us, gruesome aliens, he said they were there.  They were working on scientific experiments, in some cases side by side with Americans, in other cases they were working on their own.  There were places where human beings could go, places where only extraterrestrials could go… but the experiments, as he described them, and then actually drew images of them, were these horrible grotesque experiments, kind of like out of the movie The Island of Dr Moreau. Body parts floating in vats, human heads, human bodies, like something out of a Jeffrey Dahmer movie. It was really gruesome.  And he said these experiments were going on to blend humans and extraterrestrials.  They were growing a whole new species there.  And these stories were so compelling, so frightening, that people were actually drawn to them, and drawn to his sketches.  Well, Thomas Castello disappeared, shortly after going public, and telling his story, not only did he disappear, but the people he told his story to disappeared.  And so we went to the base, and of course if you talk to people like John Lear and others, they will tell you, that yes, this is a true story… John Lear, John Rhodes; it’s a true story, really awful things are going on there.  Another story, told to us by these two retired police officers who investigated Dulce — Ken Storch was one of the names, told us about literally a “fire fight”, pretty well known in UFOlogy circles, a fight between US service men and guards at the base, and the actual extraterrestrials, in which a number of scientists and US soldiers were killed in the fire fight, because the aliens were using very exotic weapons, weapons that we had no defenses for.  So this was the story of the fire fight. And this has been going on for years, and then, of course, could we have build a base deep inside what is basically a large hill?  What happened to all the dirt?  How do you get there?  All these kind of technical questions, you know?  Apparently, according to John Rhodes, we have the technology. Bechtel had these huge earth boring machines, he showed us the patents, so the more we investigated this, the more fascinating it became.  And of course the Native Americans who live there, the Jicarilla Appache, they told us stories about hybridized animals and people they call the ‘little people”, “the shadow people”, who lived in the area.  They showed us photographs — I have one of UFOs hovering over a mountain top.  One of the tribal police officers told us about a three-headed rabbit and strange black vans leaving Dulce in the wee small hours before the dawn. Well, it was compelling.  Finally, we met the very famous legendary Gabe Valdez, who was a retired New Mexico State Trooper, who showed us the photographs of what looked like a human head on a cow’s body.  And that was stunning, and of course the very famous Nancy Talbott of BLT research told us, “you know, don’t you, that bovine blood serum is used to culture human cells.”  And so it’s a very close serum.  And so if someone were to create a cross species, based on using cow parts for human organs, that’s something they would do is manage to blend human and bovine DNA in such a way as to create a hybridized entity that could be used as an organ machine, creating organs.

JIM:  Ah, that was my question:  what would be the percentage in trying to create hybrid, possibly dangerous crossbreeds?  What would be the benefit of that?

BILL BIRNES:  That’s the benefit.  That’s the whole point.  Now imagine, why would the military would be involved?  Just think about it. Imagine you needed a stockpile of organs for soldiers in battle. Somebody loses an organ, somebody gets shot in the lung, somebody gets shot, you need organs. What if you had the ability to grow human organs in a factory?  And what if you could take that person’s stem cells, or that person’s genetic materials, and from that, by blending that with a cow, create organs? Imagine the pharmaceutical companies… what a boon for pharmaceutical companies.  Think of this. Think of human beings having organ replacements; those that can afford them, obviously. It is… you’re looking at the possibility of immortality.  Or at least of living hundreds and hundreds of years. As organs give out, you have a heart attack, you lose heart tissue, but you can grow a whole new heart and have it implanted.  And it’s your heart, so there’s no rejection. I mean, imagine the pharmaceutical  market for that.  Well, we’d evidently stepped on the big one, because we were told, “what did you do? You’re off the air.  You guys are bad guys, you shouldn’t have done this.”  Weeks after… months after the show aired, three republican senators, Grassley, McConnell, and Lindsey Graham, went before congress and submitted a bill — I don’t know if it ever passed — it was a bill to criminalize the interbreeding between humans and other animals. So, interspecies interbreeding criminalized. Well, so, we knew we’d done something and of course we were contacted by — I was contacted by — someone who represented himself as a member of a not-so-friendly intelligence agency, though he was pretty friendly…

JIM HAROLD: With three letter, maybe?

DOCTOR WILLIAM J BIRNES: A three letter agency… who said, “what you did was just really… you could have stayed under the radar, but you wouldn’t do it, and now you’re off the air and now ABC and Disney and The History Channel have to do payback to the boys upstairs. The guys on the ground liked you, but their bosses didn’t.” And so that’s the story of how we did UFO Hunters and why we got off the air.  And so the network had such high ratings with the show — and television is such a ratings business, as you know — that they didn’t want to lose the show.  So what they did was they took one of our episodes from season three, out of the segment on the ancients with Giorgi Tsoukalos, in which we were the ones that took his model of what looked like — a bird, some kind of strange thing…

JIM HAROLD: Yes!  I remember seeing it!  What was it… a thunderbird-type thing…?

BILL BIRNES: Yeah, we were the ones who took that, went to our special effects producer Rick Price, in Hollywood he does special effects stuff, and he modeled – he took the exact scale specifications and scaled up a balsam wood model of that, launched it from a catapult, and lo and behold it flew like the space shuttle. From that one segment, The History Channel went to another production company and said, “do you want to do a two-hour special on Ancient Aliens?” and that was the segment, they re-did that segment on that show, and from that they grew the series, then the production company came to me and said, “Bill, we’d like you to be one of the hosts of that series” and I’ve been doing that show for three seasons as well. So I’ve been six seasons on The History Channel hosting UFO shows.

JIM HAROLD:  That’s fantastic. Well, I’d like to talk about some more cases.  That Dulce case is fascinating.  And I’ll put this one to you:  let’s say you had a skeptic before you… now, we know there are those people who call themselves skeptics who are really debunkers, and you could almost walk them up to a UFO with an alien and they wouldn’t believe it.  But let’s say you had somebody that’s skeptical but intellectually honest enough to be open-minded.  And you had to take one case to them that you’ve investigated and say “this is the best case where I have the best chance to convince you that something’s really going on here.”  What would be that case and why?

BILL BIRNES: Let’s start about what is a skeptic, okay, in terms of a UFO case. Believe it or not, a skeptic would be somebody from MUFON (the mutual UFO network).  Most serious UFO investigators and researchers — serious ones — are bigger skeptics than anybody, because they know how easy it is to mistake something for a UFO and build a whole story, when it’s not really a UFO at all. It’s something conventional.  So that’s first of all… if you’re looking at a skeptic, you’re probably looking at — an honest skeptic — you’re looking at a UFO investigator.  So that’s one.
Two, there are so many cases that I look at a case that would have a number of things about it, things such as multiple credible witnesses.  That’s one.  Two, is there some form of physical trace evidence that remains from that case, whether it’s photographic evidence, soil, something like that.  Is there any official documentary history on that case, not just ‘Joe writes to Sam’ or ‘Mary writes to Joe’, but really a documentary history where the government or some official agency like the military seems to get involved to make statements about the case.  And finally, the final thing for me is, is there a history of an extraordinary attempt to debunk the case by doing things that in themselves are more implausible than the fact that the case might involve an unconventional craft or otherworldly manifestation. So those are my prongs of what makes the kind of case to respond to what you were talking about.  And there are many many cases like that.
One case of course is Roswell, but I’m not going to dwell on Roswell too much, but Roswell is one such case. There’s physical trace evidence, there are multiple eye witnesses, there is official government documentation in the form of memos from the head of the Air Force Material Command.  We have deathbed affadavits from various people, and the attempts to debunk the case — oh, it’s a weather balloon; oh, it’s a project mogul balloon; oh, these are crash dummies — are so implausible it’s ridiculous. So, Roswell fits the bill on that.
The other one for me is the 1952… I’m calling it ‘The Summer of the Saucers’.  It’s UFOs over Washington DC, where there’s actual film footage and still photographs of these objects hovering over the Washington Monument, the Capitol Building… I mean, you can see these things.  We have eye-witness testimony from various pilots, radar operators, air traffic controllers. And then you have the book by Edward Rupelt, who was the former leader of Project Blue Book, saying flat out, these were not temperature aversions, clouds, malfunctioning radar, these were real objects that our planes were chasing.  So, the 1952 Summer of the Saucers.
Then there was the 1997 Phoenix Lights.  Thousands and thousands and thousands of people saw these, great video footage, great witness testimony.  The governor of the state of Arizona,
Symington, who was an air force officer who himself had a sighting back when he was in the air force, I mean, he said this was real. I mean, these weren’t just sightings of strange lights in the sky.

JIM HAROLD:  The thing about that one that was interesting to me, was that Governor Symington came out right after that and they had that ridiculous press conference with the figure dressed up like an alien, but then later on he recanted and said, ‘look.  I shouldn’t have done that, and this is real.”  And if I’m not mistaken, he saw the lights, too.

BILL BIRNES: Well, he saw the lights… that’s the interesting thing that you mention here, is that it wasn’t just the lights that he saw, and a number of other witnesses saw, he actually saw a structured craft.  He came on our show, UFO Hunters, to make that confession, and that was part of the show.  James Fox and I introduced him, and he said that not only did he see lights, what he saw was an actual, structured triangular craft. It had a kind of shimmering, wavy surface to it, and he felt a real sense of awe and majesty as this thing hovered by.  I mean, it just floated by as if it were a kite, but it seemed to be intelligently guided. And thousands of other people up close and personal saw this triangular-shaped object, bigger than football fields, float by them literally a hundred or so feet in the air.

JIM HAROLD:  The thing I love about it is, well, we’ve had Doctor Lynne Kitei on the show, and she’s written books and done documentaries as well, and the thing that I love is when the military comes back and says, “oh, it was flares from an exercise.” I mean, come on.

BILL BIRNES:  And you just mentioned that fourth prong.  When the government does something that’s so ridiculous in order to debunk it that it’s more implausible than the fact that it’s a flying saucer or something.

JIM HAROLD:  That’s like in the 90s when the government, 50 years after it happened, came out about the mogul explaination for Roswell, it’s kind of like… they drew attention to it.  “There’s nothing to see here.”

BILL BIRNES: Right. And the reason they came out with the Project Mogul statement was not in response to anything, but was in response to congressman Steve Schiff, who mysteriously died of cancer shortly thereafter, but congressman Steve Schiff from New Mexico, who raised the question, “what really happened at Roswell?” Well, the government on the 50th anniversary of Roswell came out with, “oh, it’s really a Project Mogul balloon” and they made it absolutely clear that it was a top secret project designed to detect the residue of nuclear waste from Soviet nuclear test explosions.  Well, the ludicrousness of that was, they said ‘we were doing this in 1947’ and the materials were so exotic that either the officers at the Roswell 519 air field couldn’t identify it, or guess what?  That wasn’t true at all. The Project Mogul balloon, believe it or not, was simply a series of weather balloons — conventional weather balloons — strung together so they could reach extraordinarily high altitudes. What were weather balloons made of in 1947?  neoprene rubber.  Not Mylar, not cellulose acetate, but regular old-fashioned neoprene rubber, the same neoprene rubber used in World War 2.  Everybody at the base could have identified neoprene rubber.  And, to make matters worse, the weather balloon factory was — if you’ve ever been to the Roswell base — right across the street from the base.  So even enlisted personnel knew what a weather balloon was… they saw them being made at the base.  So that was implausible, right?  So that fits that prong of extraordinarily implausible statements than the fact that it was a UFO… well, that’s the Phoenix lights.  After Luke air force base said ‘no, we had nothing in the air that night’, suddenly, suddenly the next day it was, ‘oh no, we really did, it was the Maryland International Guard, they were down here doing maneuvers, they were doing flare maneuvers.’  So now it was flares.
Well, analysts of that video footage — and we have plenty of video footage of the Phoenix lights — measured the colour spectrum — remember, flares give off a specific colour because we know what’s burning in them, it’s phosphorous, it’s incandescence, right? — looked for the various traces of flares and lo and behold when you look in split screen, and we did an episode on this, when you look at the split screen of what a flare looks like — and again this goes back to what Nancy was doing with Pat Usker — if you look at what a flare looks like and the Phoenix lights look like, they’re totally different. Then the location that the air force base gave for where the flares were being dropped didn’t match. They said they were being dropped over at the Goldwater Range, because why would you drop incandescent flares over somebody’s house? No, they’re being dropped in the flare test range.  But the flare test range was behind various mountains.  When you analyze the footage, these things are actually in front of the mountains. And so on and on… but once the flare explanation got out there, how easy it is for everybody to say, ‘oh, they’re flares! You UFO nuts, you guys will believe anything.’

JIM HAROLD: It seems they always have one of those.  Somebody put on my facebook the other day a great thing, and you’ve probably seen it I’m sure.  It’s a chart of US Air Force explanations for UFOs and it shows all different shaped UFOs including one that looks like the USS Enterprise, and everything under it has “weather balloon” “weather balloon” “weather balloon” “swamp gas” “weather balloon”… and I said the only thing they were missing was ball lightning.

BILL BIRNES: Right, and they used ball lightning to explain actual UFO sightings in World War 2 that were called “foo-fighters.”

JIM HAROLD: Well, I was actually going to ask you about that, because that’s always fascinated me; because that predates the Kenneth Arnold 1947 “flying saucers” phenomenon… but gremlins and foo-fighters and all that, talk about that a little bit.  Because that’s fascinating.

BILL BIRNES: Well, foo-fighters — again, we have photographs of these — were real phenomenon from World War 2. They intercepted our fighter pilots that were escorting our B-17s over in Germany, in the Shweinfurt raids and Dresden raids, and the thing about these is that we thought at first that they were German secret weapons, and the Germans thought they were Allied secret weapons.  Nobody knew what they were.  They didn’t fight with our planes, they didn’t shoot back at us, they simply observed.  They were basically orbs, just like the orbs that people see in places like Marley Woods in the midwest, but people think that they only were observed over the skies over Germany, of Europe,  in World War 2.  Not true, because in 1945 one of our B-29 bombers saw a foo-fighter over the South Pacific and fired on it, and apparently hit it, and it split into a number of objects and disappeared. And foo-fighters were taken seriously enough by journalists — journalists had not yet been told ‘do not write about UFOs’ — that it was a cover story in one of the national news magazines in the 1940s.  So these were real phenomena.

JIM HAROLD: It’s fascinating to me.  I want to be respectful of your time, and you’ve been very generous with your time.  I have a couple of other things I wanted to ask you, though. One is this idea, and you talked about it earlier, of reverse engineering, and that has always fascinated me because when I look at the progression — and I’m not the only person that feels that, in fact I think you mention this on the episode you did on it that talked about the SR-71 Blackbird spy plane — but if you look at the progression of technology from, let’s say, 1900 – 1950, there were obviously, you know, the atomic bomb and so forth, but it kind of went on this curve that looked pretty reasonable. And then, from 1950 ‘til today, it goes exponentially.  You know, I was just telling somebody else I was interviewing earlier, I have a computer that I just built for myself about a month ago; it probably is as powerful as a military super computer from 15 years ago, or maybe more so.  And just the idea that we can do this show, which would have taken millions of dollars of equipment and we can do it with consumer-grade technology… the way that technology has progressed, and it seems like it would have had to come from somewhere. And that kind of explosion fits pretty nicely with Kenneth Arnold and  with Roswell and so forth.

BILL BIRNES: Well, the fascinating thing about reverse engineering is that, after Roswell — this is in 1947 — as the story goes,  our president Truman told his military Chief of Staff, his — I forget the person’s name, I want to say it’s George Marshall but I could be wrong — to take the lowest common denominator of technology that came out of that crash — because nobody knew really what that thing was — and take it to whatever industry they thought might have been working on something that was similar.  And that’s the secret of reverse engineering.
The argument against the possibility of reverse engineering, and reverse engineering obviously existed — I mean, when one of our B-29 bombers had a forced landing, in the Soviet Union at the end of World War 2, the Soviet Union actually took the plane apart and rebuilt their own Ilyshin bomber, which is physically identical to a B-29, probably bolt for bolt.  We’ve done that with some Soviet technology, so reverse engineering is a common thing; it’s not some magic thing, it’s common. The big skeptical argument about reverse engineering from UFOs is ‘oh, let’s just say we’ve gone back in time and left a cell phone in ancient Sumeria.  Now, not only would they not know how to reverse, they wouldn’t even know what it was. How could they tell?’  Well, I mean, again:  implausible argument because, in the case of the Roswell craft, some of the technology — and this is always my argument against it being a very advanced craft — some of the technology was technology we were already working on. So, when you look at it, it wasn’t that far ahead of us in terms of the electronics; in terms of, we were already working on lasers at the army lab at Columbia in the 1940s. So we were already working on this stuff. But the point is, you just create this unbelievably hypothetical situation and then take what people say is the reality and overlay it to that situation, so of course it’s illogical. Reverse engineering was that we were already working on some of this technology.  In the case of the integrated circuit, Brattain and Shockley at Bell Labs all the way back in the 1930s were looking for a way to create a switch, a way to pass current through a circuit without having to use this nineteenth century device.  By the way, this same nineteenth century device is called a light bulb, which was invented by Thomas Edison. Like the incandescent bulb, which we’re only now beginning to replace with other kinds of light bulbs, because you realize how energy-inefficient it is… but when you go to the store and buy an incandescent light bulb and put ‘er in a lamp, you’re basically using technology that’s almost two hundred years old. I mean, 150 years old, right?

JIM HAROLD:  Getting away from tubes, I even remember as a kid we had tube TVs, and they had to come and fix them.  The tube would burn out, they’d take the tube to the store…
BILL BIRNES:  Right.  And it’s funny, because then in some of the pharmacies and super pharmacies, they had tube testers, and if you could look inside your TV see which tube wasn’t lit, like a light bulb you’d pull it out, take it to the tube tester and you’d plug it into the sockets, and you’d turn it on and see if the tube was working or not. Well, in the 1930s, Brattain and Shockley wanted to find a way to create a level of circuitry that didn’t rely on Edison tubes, ie light bulbs, to pass current.  And to use these devices they were working on as switches — on other words, could you pass one electron through and shut it off.  So, on/off.  A binary circuit. And they were using silicon as a base for the two nodes to pass it, but they couldn’t do two things with it: they couldn’t only generate or pass one electron at a time.  I mean, when you watch electricity, right, it’s the flow of electrons through some conductor. They couldn’t pass one electron at a time. Either you’re passing a bunch or you’re not.  And the electrons would flow both ways. So you couldn’t do a singular directional circuit. Well, when they received the pieces of debris from the Roswell crash — this would have been in Fall, 1947… over the summer of 1947, actually  – they looked at the chemistry of the base of this circuitry, and they saw that is was a combination of silicon and certain amounts of arsenic — when they used arsenic and silicon as a base, suddenly they were able to direct the flow of electrons and use this device as a switch, and that became the transistor.  And thus the modern digital computer age was born. But, the evidence for this, look at the reach:  there was a crash at Roswell, the crash was of some kind of crash that was otherworldly, pieces of that craft went to Bell Labs with Brattain and Shockley already working on the transistor, suddenly… well, Brattain and Shockley had no work bench notes in the 1940s.  In other words, there was no documentation of their work. Only after the transistor was patented by Bell Labs in 1948, and then re-patented in 1949 and then suddenly by the end of ‘49 people had these little transistor radios, these little teeny radios… I remember their first appearance in 1950 as a consumer device.
Well, after these were in consumer applications, and of course they were in military applications as well, suddenly Brattain and Shockley reverse engineered their own notes to account for how they discovered this. In other words, their notes we’re using didn’t exist in 1947, but suddenly by 1949 they did exist, reverse engineered from the 1930s.  That, to me, is another case of reverse engineering. Every item that Philip Corso said he brought to various industries were things that the industries were already working on. So, fiber optics:  the army technologists basically flashed a light through this kind of Y-shaped set of glass-looking filaments, monofilaments, and sure enough it was in different colours, and they realised that they could use light to carry signals and that became fiber optics, and that went to AT&T Bell Labs.  Kevlar, that substance went to Monsanto and the University of Colorado, working on trying to reverse engineer the substance in spider web; one of the strongest substances, by the way, on planet earth, if you look at what spiders do.  That’s what they were doing. So here’s a case where those substances were actually being used. Those inventions were already being made.  The army was already working on powered light, a maser, and they were doing it at Columbia University, and of course, proof from history we now know that the general of the army, Dwight D. Eisenhower, later the president of the United States, after he retired from the army, was the president of my alma mater, Columbia University, and that was where the army lab was. So, fascinating that it would go there. You have General Douglas MacArthur in 1952 at Sperry Rand saying that our next major battles will be in outer space.  He told the New York times. So there’s a lot of evidence for reverse engineering of something, whether it was from alien technology or not, I would love to see the memo, but circumstantial evidence really supports that.

JIM HAROLD:   Yeah, I think so.  One last question, then I want to ask where everybody can go and find out about UFO Magazine and everything you’re doing. I do a weekly video show, as I said, and a lot of what we do is feature a lot of video from youtube and so forth, and you’ve been doing this for a good while now.  Is it becoming more difficult because of the proliferation of different video devices, that there’s almost too much UFO video and it’s hard to separate the wheat from the chaff?

BILL BIRNES: Well, first of all, anybody can create a UFO video, as you know.  And certainly there have been some very famous UFO film hoaxes. You don’t need a consumer grade camera or a cell phone camera to create a UFO hoax. I mean, so we know that, right? The more sophisticated you get… so you’ve got to be careful.  But on the other hand, the prevalence:  why would there be so many hoaxes? Why would people waste time creating a hoax? Well, as one person from the military told me, they’re put up to it by the very three-letter agency that keep us safe in our beds at night, because the more hoaxes you can show on youtube, the less likely people are to believe they’re crying wolf. The less likely people are to believe that there really is something out there.

JIM HAROLD:  That makes a lot of sense.  Well, thank you for being so generous with your time. Tell folks a little bit about UFO Magazine, where they can go; obviously, watch you on The History Channel — I can’t just call it History, to me it’s The History Channel, probably always will be in my mind. Where can people go on the web to find out everything Bill Birnes is up to?

BILL BIRNES: Well, if you want to look at UFO Magazine, if you want to get a free sample issue of UFO Magazine, we give them away.  You pay for the postage, we pay for the magazine; send it right to your door, first-class mail, go to www.UFOmag.com.  That’s the website. And you can see all of our past issues. You want a real bargain, order one of our past issues or our current issue, even before it comes off press you can order the current issue of our magazine electronically; that will be in a PDF file that you can read on your computer, your iPad, your iPhone, whatever you have, you can order that. $2.50.  When you order it using our shopping cart, it downloads right to your computer. So it’s the fastest way to get UFO Magazine, and if you don’t want to have a bunch of copies sitting on your bookcase, and wait for them in the mail or wait for the post office to deliver them, order it electronically. So that’s how to get UFO Magazine.
When you’re on that site, you can also pop over to our radio show, every Saturday night we go live at 6 o’clock with some very interesting guests, not necessarily from the field of UFOs, although many of them are.  We do a lot of conspiracy and alternate history topics as well.  It’s called Future Theatre, and the radio show is there.  We’re on talk stream live, and folks could download all of our past shows from UFO Magazine, just click on “Future Theatre”.

JIM HAROLD:  Good deal.  Thank you, Bill Birnes, for being on the Paranormal Podcast.

BILL BIRNES: You’re more than welcome.  Thank you.

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A UFO investigation, a creepy spirit that targets the weak, a young girl who moves things with her mind and a ring from the other side are featured on this Campfire.

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This week we featured 63 Documents the Government Doesn’t Want You To Read by Jesse Ventura
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A stunning UFO sighting in Manhattan,  a mountain rendezvous gone wrong,  a UFO sighting later confirmed by radar data, and a man talks about an encounter that still gives him goose flesh — a mysterious entity who visited his boyhood room plus more on this edition of the Campfire!

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Len Kasten

Author Len Kasten believes that ETs have been and are on Earth.  We discuss his book on the subject and about the different races of aliens, their intent, and how they have been interacting with us for many, many years.  You can check out his recent book on the subject:

The Secret History of Extraterrestrials: Advanced Technology and the Coming New Race

The Secret History of Extraterrestrials – KINDLE EDITION

You can also check out Len’s website at et-secrethistory.com

Thanks Len!

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They support us, please support them! Of course, I am talking about our show sponsor Audible.com

With over 75,000 titles it is a great way to get your spoken word fix!

This week we featured The Hidden Reality: Parallel Universes and the Deep Laws of the Cosmos

As a Paranormal Podcast viewer you can get this book or another free audiobook at audiblepodcast.com/paranormal

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The Pentagon is claiming this was an optical illusion…I’m not buying it.

UFONut.com did this very interesting video investigation on cattle mutilations.

Warning: Contains Graphic Images of Mutilations.

Source: UFONUT.com

Jim chats with a listener about a family UFO sighting from the 1930s (!), and visits with the “Most Haunted Man In America”, plus a very special story that has something to do with this week’s show title.  Jim announces that from here on out Campfire will be released weekly starting with this episode!

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Leslie Kean shows her courage by being on The Colbert Report. Coincidentally, she is an upcoming guest on both The Paranormal Report & The Paranormal Podcast.

She was a good sport and held her own. Seriously, she has written a very important book on the subject.

Source: ColbertNation.com

Tales heard around the Campfire this time include a haunted nursing home, a down to earth’s woman otherworldly vision validated, plus both a haunted family home and boat house on this episode of Campfire!

Audible

They support us, please support them! Of course, I am talking about our show sponsor Audible.com

With over 75,000 downloadable titles it is a great way to get your spoken word fix!

This week we featured Classic Tales of Horror

As a Campfire listener you can get this book or another free audiobook at audiblepodcast.com/campfire

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Kyle Lovern

UFO researcher Kyle Lovern shares his work on UFO sightings in the Appalachian region of the US.  These down to earth people have seen more than their share of weird things in the sky and Kyle has made his life’s work of investigating these fascinating stories.

Check out Kyle’s books at Amazon.com: Appalachian Case Study: UFO Sightings, Alien Encounters and Unexplained Phenomena

APPALACHIAN CASESTUDY: UFO Sightings, Alien Encounters And Unexplained Phenomena VOL. 2

You’ll also want to check out Kyle’s site at KyleLovernUFOs.com

Thanks Kyle!

Michael Kurland

Author Michael Kurland joins us to talk about UFOs, Unsolved Mysteries and the history of forensic science on this episode of The Paranormal Podcast!

Here are some of Michael’s books at Amazon.com:

Complete Idiot’s Guide to Unsolved Mysteries

Irrefutable Evidence: Adventures in the History of Forensic Science

Michael’s Page at Amazon.com

Also, you can check out his website at MichaelKurland.com

Thanks Michael!

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They support us, please support them! Of course, I am talking about our show sponsor Audible.com

With over 75,000 titles it is a great way to get your spoken word fix!

This week we featured Linchpin: Are You Indispensable?

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Nick Redfern

Most UFO enthusiasts are very familiar with the concept of alien abduction, but what about the once commonly reported phenomena of Contactees?  Prolific author Nick Redfern joins us to talk about this forgotten but very important chapter of UFO history.

Check out Nick’s new book on the subject at Amazon.com: Contactees: A History of Alien-human Interaction

Nick also has a treasure trove of info on his work at NickRedfern.com

Thanks Nick!

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Dr. Lynne Kitei

You can find her book and documentary at these links:

THE PHOENIX LIGHTS – Amazon On Demand Video (inc’l Free Preview)

The Phoenix Lights … We Are Not Alone Documentary (DVD)

The Phoenix Lights (Book)

You can also find Dr. Lynne’s website at ThePhoenixLights.net

Thanks Dr. Lynne!

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This week we listen to a clip from The Time Traveler’s Wife

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Kylesstudio.com

Thanks to show fan and artist extraordinaire, Kyle Wood, for doing some great artwork for our Campfire podcast if you need graphic services, check him out.  He does fantastic work. I can vouch for it!

To get High quality graphics, Illustrations, 3D and photo manipulation go to Kylesstudio.com Serving the Graphic World for 25 years. Whether on the web or print, Kyle’s Studio is your one stop shop for your graphic needs.

Paranormal fans, welcome to JimHarold.com!  Feast on 300+ FREE paranormal talk programs dealing with paranormal, UFO, psychic, life after death and ghost phenomena plus a touch of conspiracy theory for taste.  Listen to “The Paranormal Podcast” for expert interviews and “Jim Harold’s Campfire” for listener stories of strangeness!  PLUS, check out our video series on this week in the supernatural, ”The Paranormal Report”.  Into the paranormal?  Spend a few minutes or a few hours exploring our extensive archives.  Enjoy!

Nick Pope ran the British Government’s UFO program at the Ministry of Defense.  He started out as a skeptic but he ended up in a very different place.  We discuss his work in his governmental role and his current research on UFOs.

Nick Pope

Here are links to a couple of Nick’s books:

An American Demonology: Flying Saucers Over the White House (Nick was a contributor to this book)

Open Skies, Closed Minds

You can learn more about Nick’s work at his website: NickPope.net

–AUDIBLE–

The Paranormal Podcast is brought to you by Audible. With over 50,000 titles it is a great way to get your spoken word fix! On this episode, we featured a tale of man against vampire – I Am Legend by the legendary Richard Matheson.

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Great for commutes and multitasking.  Check it out and support the show!

Interesting discussion between Fox News’ Bill Hemmer and UFO expert Nick Pope on the British military reaction to UFOs.  Source: Fox News.

Continuing on the topic of our most recent podcast, below is an interview that Robert Hastings and several eyewitnesses conducted with Larry King last July on the UFO/Nuke connection. Source: CNN

]]> http://jimharold.com/video/more-on-ufos-nukes-jimharoldcom-paranormal-video-pick/feed/ 2 http://jimharold.com/the-paranormal-podcast/the-ufo-nuke-connection-paranormal-podcast-73/ http://jimharold.com/the-paranormal-podcast/the-ufo-nuke-connection-paranormal-podcast-73/#comments Sat, 21 Mar 2009 16:15:07 +0000 Jim Harold http://jimharold.com/?p=1034 Scarier than any ghost story, author Robert Hastings describes his research that indicates aliens have not only been observing ICBM sites actively over the last several decades, but that they have also remotely tampered with missile operations.  He also provides his theory on why extraterrestrials are so interested in man’s flirtation with the nuclear genie. [...]]]>

Scarier than any ghost story, author Robert Hastings describes his research that indicates aliens have not only been observing ICBM sites actively over the last several decades, but that they have also remotely tampered with missile operations.  He also provides his theory on why extraterrestrials are so interested in man’s flirtation with the nuclear genie.

You can learn more about Robert’s work and his book at his site: UFOHastings.com

Thanks Robert!

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As referenced in this week’s show, please read this post on why we are asking for your help.  Thanks!

A incredibly interest clip featuring  Mexican Air Force pilots who went looking for drug smugglers but found something out of this world…

Source: MSNBC.com

]]> http://jimharold.com/video/mexican-airmen-encounter-ufos-jimharoldcom-paranormal-video-pick/feed/ 1 http://jimharold.com/video/texas-ufos-a-jimharoldcom-paranormal-video-pick/ http://jimharold.com/video/texas-ufos-a-jimharoldcom-paranormal-video-pick/#comments Fri, 06 Mar 2009 03:30:09 +0000 Jim Harold http://jimharold.com/?p=952 A discussion of the recent UFO sightings in Texas.  Source: CNN.com Embedded video from <a href=”http://www.cnn.com/video” mce_href=”http://www.cnn.com/video”>CNN Video</a>]]>

A discussion of the recent UFO sightings in Texas.  Source: CNN.com

]]> http://jimharold.com/video/texas-ufos-a-jimharoldcom-paranormal-video-pick/feed/ 0 http://jimharold.com/video/ufos-1-vs-windfarm-0-jimharoldcom-paranormal-video-pick-of-the-day/ http://jimharold.com/video/ufos-1-vs-windfarm-0-jimharoldcom-paranormal-video-pick-of-the-day/#comments Sat, 28 Feb 2009 03:19:22 +0000 Jim Harold http://jimharold.com/?p=903 English townspeople claim a UFO has wrecked a local wind turbine…real or overactive imagination…you decide. —— If you are here looking at the interesting paranormal videos produced by others that we’ve found on the net, don’t forget to check out our own original audio podcast (basically a radio show on the Internet) – The Paranormal [...]]]>

English townspeople claim a UFO has wrecked a local wind turbine…real or overactive imagination…you decide.

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If you are here looking at the interesting paranormal videos produced by others that we’ve found on the net, don’t forget to check out our own original audio podcast (basically a radio show on the Internet) – The Paranormal Podcast with Jim Harold…click on this link to find all 60+ episodes of The Paranormal Podcast, subscribe for free with iTunes or click on the “Listen Now” button at jimharold.com

Last week it was Ghost Hunters and this week it is UFO Hunters…this clip from last October profiles the hosts and the show.

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If you are here looking at the interesting paranormal videos produced by others that we’ve found on the net, don’t forget to check out our own original audio podcast (basically a radio show on the Internet) – The Paranormal Podcast with Jim Harold…click on this link to find all 60+ episodes of The Paranormal Podcast, subscribe for free with iTunes or click on the “Listen Now” button at jimharold.com

This is a nice review by Popular Mechanics of several military aircraft that could have accounted for a great number of UFO sightings during the last few decades.

Here is the link:

Military Planes and UFOs

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If you haven’t had a chance check out our free archive of The Paranormal Podcast @ jimharold.com

Here is a story of a Wichita man who recently photographed a UFO that has taken the Internet by storm.  Here is his story:

In this clip, we see the story of one of the most famous UFO encounters ever – The Phoenix Lights sightings from 1997.  Source: Dateline NBC, msnbc.com

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If you are here looking at the interesting paranormal videos we’ve found on the net, don’t forget to check out our own original audio podcast (basically a radio show on the Internet) – The Paranormal Podcast with Jim Harold…click on this link to find all episodes of The Paranormal Podcast, subscribe for free with iTunes or click on the “Listen Now” button at jimharold.com
]]> http://jimharold.com/video/the-phoenix-lights-jimharoldcom-paranormal-video-pick-of-the-day/feed/ 0 http://jimharold.com/video/astronaut-edgar-mitchell-says-ufos-are-real-jimharoldcom-paranormal-video-pick-of-the-day/ http://jimharold.com/video/astronaut-edgar-mitchell-says-ufos-are-real-jimharoldcom-paranormal-video-pick-of-the-day/#comments Mon, 09 Feb 2009 01:46:38 +0000 Jim Harold http://jimharold.com/?p=753 In this clip from August 2008, Fox News’ Sean Hannity hosts a segment on retired astronaut Dr. Edgar Mitchell who says that aliens are real!  Source: FoxNews.com —— If you are here looking at the interesting paranormal videos we’ve found on the net, don’t forget to check out our own original audio podcast (basically a [...]]]>

In this clip from August 2008, Fox News’ Sean Hannity hosts a segment on retired astronaut Dr. Edgar Mitchell who says that aliens are real!  Source: FoxNews.com

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If you are here looking at the interesting paranormal videos we’ve found on the net, don’t forget to check out our own original audio podcast (basically a radio show on the Internet) – The Paranormal Podcast with Jim Harold…click on this link to find all episodes of The Paranormal Podcast, subscribe for free with iTunes or click on the “Listen Now” button at jimharold.com

Check out this fascinating video on why the former Soviet Union was obsessed with UFOs. The interviewee is NBC Space Analyst James Oberg. Source: MSNBC.com

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If you are here looking at the paranormal videos we’ve found on the net, don’t forget to check out our own original audio podcast (basically a radio show on the Internet) – The Paranormal Podcast with Jim Harold…click on this link to find all episodes of The Paranormal Podcast, subscribe for free with iTunes or click on the “Listen Now” button at jimharold.com

This clip details the RAF’s effort to intercept UFO’s.  This clip comes to us from “across the pond” via telegraph.co.uk

Fascinating stuff!

If you are here looking at the paranormal videos we’ve found on the net, don’t forget to check out our own original audio podcast (basically a radio show on the Internet) – The Paranormal Podcast with Jim Harold…click on this link to find all episodes of The Paranormal Podcast, subscribe for free with iTunes or click on the “Listen Now” button at jimharold.com

This video from YouTube supposedly shows Marines in Iraq marveling at some mysterious objects in the sky.  Note: The language is PG-13.  Do you think it is a legitimate UFO or just some random lights?  As always, the decision is yours!

If you are here looking at the paranormal videos we’ve found on the net, don’t forget to check out our own original audio podcast (basically a radio show on the Internet) – The Paranormal Podcast with Jim Harold…click on this link to find all episodes of The Paranormal Podcast, subscribe for free with iTunes or click on the “Listen Now” button at jimharold.com

We interview best selling authors on various paranormal topics, we think you’ll like it & best of all its free!  Thanks!

A fascinating clip I found on YouTube.  I would love to give a nod to the documentarian but I can’t find a credit.  Anyhow, this video tells how the Apollo 11 crew encountered much more on their journey than moon rocks.  Did they encounter “little green men”?  As always, the decision is yours!

If you are just here looking at the paranormal videos we’ve found on the net, don’t forget to check out our own original audio podcast (basically a radio show on the Internet) – The Paranormal Podcast with Jim Harold…click on this link to find all episodes of The Paranormal Podcast, subscribe for free with iTunes or click on the “Listen Now” button at jimharold.com

We interview best selling authors on various paranormal topics, we think you’ll like it & best of all its free!  Thanks!

We are going to start adding a lot of new features to the site, and one of the first is Jim’s Paranormal Video of The Day. This is a supposed UFO that was sighted on Inauguration Day.  Look at the cutaway shot with the Washington Monument in the background.  The UFO comes from the right side of the screen.  Is it really something out of this world or merely a stray bird?  As always, decide for yourself!

UPDATE: THIS VIDEO WAS PULLED OFF OF YouTube after numerous mainstream media linked to it in their own stories…MMMM, makes you wonder…was someone hiding something?

UPDATE No. 2: I found this video on FoxNews.com.

Although it is the best known, the Roswell incident is not the only reported crash of a UFO.  In this episode, UFO researchers Noe Torres and Ruben Uriarte discuss two such fascinating incidents…one in 1955 and the other in 1974.  They have written books on both and offer an interesting glimpse into the lesser known but compelling cases.

Check out their books on the subject at Amazon.com:

The Other Roswell: UFO Crash on the Texas-Mexico Border

Mexico’s Roswell

Also, check out their website at RoswellBooks.com

Two truly enjoyable gentlemen…Noe & Ruben…thanks!

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This edition of The Paranormal Podcast is brought to you by Audible.  With over 50,000 titles it is a great way to get your spoken word fix!

Coincidentally, one of this week’s guests is a huge Audible fan and you will hear his unsolicited endorsement on the show.

Our selection this week is Star Trek Memories by William Shatner.  As a Paranormal Podcast listener you can get this or another free audiobook at audiblepodcast.com/paranormal by signing up for their 14 day free trial.  If you continue with Audible, which we are sure you will, that’s great.  If not, this gift is yours to keep.  What a deal!  Your participation will help us continue this great relationship with Audible.

Our guest on this episode of Paranormal Podcast is Stanton Friedman. He is one of the world’s most erudite UFO experts. A prolific author and speaker, Stanton literally “wrote the book” on the Roswell Incident.

Click here to visit his website and find more information on Stanton and his latest book TOP SECRET/MAJIC: 2nd Edition which includes a new afterword.

Thanks Stan!

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—-CREDITS—-

Please check out the following artists whose podsafe music was featured in this edition of Paranormal Podcast. You can find their artists pages at Podsafe Audio

Devin Anderson – The Burlesque = Segments of this piece were used for the show intro and in the first break.

The Cheebacabra – Metamorphosis = A segment of this piece was used in the second break.

David Henderson – We Gotta Go = A segment of this piece was used in the show close.

Please check out their artists pages at Podsafe Audio