Are We Being Deceived By Paranormal Phenomena – Paranormal Podcast 733

Apple PodcastsSpotifyiHeartRadioPandoraAmazon MusicYouTube

Barry Fitzgerald has delved deep into the world of the paranormal for decades. He warns that we may all be the subject of a colossal deception and shares that warning on The Paranormal Podcast.

You can find his recent book on the subject at Amazon: The Deception of Gods and Men: The Price of Power Has Never Been so Great. Here is the link:

Thanks Barry!

-CALM- (The Paranormal Podcast Sponsorship)

We’re so happy to partner with Calm. Calm is the app designed to help you ease stress and get the best sleep of your life.

Calm is offering Paranormal Podcast listeners a special limited time promotion of 40% off a Calm Premium subscription at CALM.COM/jim


ParaBox Monthly is your source for amazing one of a kind paranormal t-shirts that will lead you into an online paranormal mystery. Go to to get a 25% discount!


JIM HAROLD: Are we being deceived by the paranormal? Is there something far more sinister going on? We’ll find out on today’s edition of the Paranormal Podcast.

[intro music]

This is the Paranormal Podcast with Jim Harold.

JIM HAROLD: Welcome to the Paranormal Podcast. I am Jim Harold and so glad to be with you once again. What if what we’ve been told about the supernatural only scratches the surface, and it hides something much deeper? That’s the premise of a new book out. It’s called The Deception of Gods and Men, and we are joined by one of the authors today, Barry Fitzgerald. So glad to catch up with Barry once again. Very accomplished.

He actually has over 30 years of experience within the world of the supernatural, and it’s taken him to new levels of intrigue and mystery, appearing on Ghosthunters, Ghosthunters International, and Destination Truth. He headed a team on the American-owned NBC Sci-Fi Network and explored a quandary of the paranormal and the supernatural around the globe. He’s been recognized for his work in the paranormal world and received the award of Paranormal TV Personality of the Year in 2016 and 2018 from PSW, which is based in the Netherlands.

His research has evolved and took him out of his comfort zone and into Irish myth, legend, and folklore that has led him into the shadowy depths of the underworld, not only in Ireland, but around the globe, uncovering shocking similarities between cultural encounters with the unknown. Barry, it’s so good to catch up with you. We were saying before, it’s been a few years since we talked. I’m so glad we caught up. Thank you for joining us today.

BARRY FITZGERALD: Thanks, Jim, for having me on. Indeed, it has been a long time. Many things have happened.

JIM HAROLD: Yes, but we’re still around and we’re still doing out stuff, so that’s the good thing. And you’ve been very busy with this new book. Again, it’s called The Deception of Gods and Men by yourself and Brian Allan. How did you get started down this tack?

BARRY FITZGERALD: Well, whenever I finished the book itself and was able to listen to the audiobook and rehash what I had written, I was able to see that all the books I had written up to that particular point had all been part of the path to get there. I’d thought to myself, “I’m writing books here that are completely independent,” but looking now at the overall picture, I can see there was a dedicated direction within these books to arrive at this particular book, The Deception of Gods and Men.

I think on that particular aspect, I felt that The Deception of Gods and Men really pulled everything together, everything that we were seeing, everything that we were experiencing. We were really melding this and forming it into something which really shows a different picture of something that is behind this veil that continues to interact with us in ways that in itself can be exceptionally deceptive. And there are reasons for that, we believe.

JIM HAROLD: When you look at the paranormal – and I always use this example; I’m sure that you had it over in Ireland, syndicated – the old reruns of In Search Of… with Leonard Nimoy. They would talk about “We’re going to investigate different strange phenomena,” and they’d say things like, “UFOs, ghosts, strange creatures,” and everything was very siloed.

You’ve been at this a lot longer than me, but when I started in 2005, that was kind of the view that I had: that everything was very siloed, very separate. UFOs were over here and ghosts over here and cryptids over there. Even I think you see it in the paranormal communities – and when I say paranormal, I include all of it, not just ghosts. You say, “I’m a ghost person, but those UFO people are kind of crazy,” or the UFO people say, “I can get along with the ghost people, but those cryptid people, they’re way out there.” So it even gets that divided.

But do you believe that all of these phenomena, or at least parts of all of these phenomena, are somehow connected?

BARRY FITZGERALD: Yes. Whenever we really started pulling the research, we started seeing this common thread that was wielding its way through a lot of the fringe research fields. This thread held a lot of commonality that was shared throughout. I’ll give you an example. Within the world of say the UFO, you have phenomena which would include missing time, the mischievous nature of some of the interactions, abduction, mutilation.

Those are just some of the extended list of connections that are also shared with Earth spirits. In Ireland and the Nordic countries, we call them the faery. In the Middle East, we call them the djinn. The old gods and the UFO are all common factors. What we ended up seeing was that the mask in which it portrays itself, in itself, is somewhat deceptive.

What we had to do was strip away the mask and follow the phenomena in which it interacted with us. By doing that, we were led right back to the gates of Babylon and written history. So we were able to see that this was something that did not just suddenly happen after we started exploding bombs during the Second World War, or following the Second World War, and even the UFO crash in 1947. This is something that’s been going on for thousands of years.

And each time, it has relayed itself under a different mask, and sometimes what we were seeing was that that mask can change several times in a generation. But the way that it interacts with us remained the same.

When the work continued, we were also able to see elements of how we could defend ourselves against some of these particular aspects, these commonalities. When we look at the common factors and see how many there are, which includes, of course, the cryptids as well, we see – there’s a particular principle that is used in the courts here in Europe. It’s known as the similar effect principle. This particular process is used to arrive at convictions within the court system.

In itself, there is a huge amount of proof, a huge amount of evidence suggesting that what we’re looking at here originates from the same source.

JIM HAROLD: We interview people on all of these different phenomena. I’ll give you an example: UFOs. A lot of people think these – whatever they are; most of the time people think they’re extraterrestrials – they’re here to help us.” Kind of what you were talking about. After World War II, once they saw the atomic bomb was possible, they’re here to watch over us, they’re our space brothers, they’re looking out for us, and we should welcome them and this is a good thing.

And then if you take a look at ghost phenomena, people say these are spirits, and many times they’re visiting here to maybe comfort us, and maybe they’re visiting loved ones and those kinds of things. Explanations like that go out the window with your work, do you think?

BARRY FITZGERALD: There are some positive interactions that occur. However, you referred to “space brothers,” and I can assure you, the space brothers have their own intentions there. The majority of the paranormal phenomena also has its own agenda. The way that it sells itself to us is a phenomenon which I call the hook and bait.

For instance, within the UFO phenomenon, you will have this light in the sky that appears, or this object that will appear close to the people. That particular process itself is the hook, if you like, that’s dangled in front of the conscious brain. That in itself, unless we are listening to our gift of discernment, our intuition if you like, within the first 20 seconds, that can affect the outcome of that particular encounter. Because within the first 20 seconds, our bodies are signaling us the true nature of that particular phenomenon. That relays itself through the fight or flight response, though that can be interfered with.

That’s why I say within the first 20 seconds, that’s what we have to listen to. That is our instinct telling us and reacting to the situation – or not, for that case. If it’s not reacting, most times it’s going to be okay. It’s going to be a positive encounter. If you’re reacting and your body is starting to kick into gear, that’s your signal. Get away from that.

That plays out time and time and time again, and we see this throughout the encounters. The moment that we pass that 20 second interval, then we tend to see – we put a theory out there that we’re starting to see this movement, the need to push the theta rhythm forward, and that theta rhythm is what the brain finds itself in in deep meditation. It’s also somewhere where hypnotic suggestion can play out, and also false memory.

These particular instances tend to play out after the 20-second interval. That overrides our instinct, and we can see that time and time again with interaction after interaction after interaction. In fact, there’s one which we’ll come back to hopefully later on – the Shining Ones, which are my nemesis. We can talk about those as well, about how they interact with us and deliver these so-called wonderful messages. But at the core of the message, at the core of the encounter lies the true nature of the phenomenon.

JIM HAROLD: Well, since sometimes, with my advancing age, I start to forget things, let’s get to that right now. [laughs] Who are the Shining Ones?

BARRY FITZGERALD: The Shining Ones themselves tend to appear near rock faces and rocky plateaus and cave systems. What tends to happen is when these particular entities appear, they will present their own light. They will deliver these so-called messages of world peace and the usual, “the world’s going to destroy itself unless we turn our ways” and things like that. But what we have to remember is that, like I said before, within the first 20 seconds the true nature of that phenomenon is experienced.

Within history, they’re known as the Shining Ones, the Bright Ones. They have many, many names. They tend to steer a lot within religions and things like that. In fact, there’s two particular instances which we talk about, one being Medjugorje in Eastern Europe. This particular entity appeared on top of a rocky hill in 1981. It appeared to children. The nature of this particular phenomenon displayed itself within the first 20 seconds. Those children were frightened. They were stunned. They didn’t move. That in itself speaks volumes, that the fight or flight engaged. We were picking up that this was not as it was displayed to be.

We also see this within the likes of – oh my goodness, I forgot the name of it, over in France. They have another location, Lourdes. St. Bernadette, at that time when she had the encounter with the Shining One in the mouth of the cave system, it’s interesting to note how the interaction with that particular being changed when religion became involved and everything was smoothed out. Because at the beginning, when St. Bernadette encountered the being, she referred to it as “that thing.” She did not identify it as Our Lady. She didn’t know what it was. In fact, it was smaller than her. It mimicked her and what she was doing. But by no means did she say, “This is Our Lady.” No. She referred to it as “that thing.” That spoke volumes.

It’s interesting to see how many people go to that location. In fact, I was speaking to a lady several weeks ago who went to that location and her instinct was screaming at her to get the hell out of there. It’s absolutely amazing to see this.

When we go back, and this idea of the Shining Ones, of the old gods, and of course their delivery to humanity and how to steer us and everything else, there is a wonderful book out there. It’s called Gods, Demons and Symbols of Ancient Mesopotamia by Jeremy Black and Anthony Green. They state in ancient Mesopotamia, the gods exuded malan [sp], and that was a light that was terrifying and awe-inspiring. That sits neatly with the Shining Ones and the Bright Ones and whatever else you want to call them throughout history.

But it should be noted that Medjugorje – I came across a particular reference from the current pope, Pope Francis, in 2017 in which he referred to the Lady of Medjugorje as not the mother of Jesus. So even the Church itself recognizes that. And in fact, some people within the Church have called Medjugorje demonic and believe it is demonic.

JIM HAROLD: We’ll be back with Barry right after this on the Paranormal Podcast.

The Paranormal Podcast is brought to you by your friends over at Calm. Calm is the number one mental wellness app that gives you the tools that improve the way you feel.

You know, in life, trying something new can be intimidating. Meditation, for example. That might be something you’ve been hearing about, but you have yet to try it for yourself. But not to worry, because Calm helps you feel more at ease from the moment you start. Find somewhere that’s comfortable and familiar to you, like your couch or bed, and tune in to Calm. And again, we’re so glad to partner with them. They are such a great partner, and they have such a great app.

Reduce stress and anxiety through guided meditations, improve focus with curated music tracks, and rest and recharge with Calm’s imaginative sleep stories for children and adults. There’s even new daily movement sessions designed to relax your body and uplift your mind.

And if you go to, you’ll get a special offer of 40% off a Calm premium subscription. New content is added every week. Over 100 million people around the world use Calm to take care of their minds. I am one of them. Each member of my immediate family is one of them. We all love the app, and we highly, highly recommend it. It really makes a difference in your life. Calm is ready to help you stress less, sleep more, and live a happier, healthier life.

And for listeners of this show, Calm is offering an exclusive offer of 40% off a Calm premium subscription at Go to for 40% off unlimited access to Calm’s entire library. That’s We thank Calm for their support of the Paranormal Podcast.

Subscribe or follow the Paranormal Podcast today wherever you get your podcasts. Please rate, review, and tell a friend, too. It helps so much. Thanks! Now back to the Paranormal Podcast.

JIM HAROLD: We are indeed back on the Paranormal Podcast. Our guest today is Barry Fitzgerald, and he has recently co-authored a book with Brian Allan. It’s called The Deception of Gods and Men, and we’re so glad to have him back on the show.

What does your framework, this idea that many of these encounters are nefarious in some way and have hidden agendas, what does your theory do to the idea of religious faith? Is it basically just all explanations that have come across for this that have been plastered on top of what’s really going on?

BARRY FITZGERALD: The problem with religion is that it has been interfered with by a lot of people who are wanting control. Religion is not spirituality. They are two separate things altogether. Religion at its basis, of course, is about rule. It’s about power. That should be distinguished from spirituality.

When we go back far enough, within the book, we look at this – you go back to these places, the rocks and things where you tend to find this cooperation between our world and this doorway to the other place. That’s where you tend to find a lot, especially within the Greek mythology and folklore, you tend to find the Oracle of Delphi, where the kings and the priests were coming to that location to have interaction with these beings on the other side. They were being given instruction on how to rule us, and they were also sharing knowledge.

That knowledge tended to form in the lines of sociology, government, economics, warfare, crime, medicine, engineering, and science. So they were a source of great information that was coming through, but that information came at a price, and that was huge.

If we move forward in time, we see that some of these areas are still active, and a lot of the areas that we tended to find these temples, if you like, we can find by using satellite technology, appear within negative magnetic anomalies around the planet. Both north and south of the hemisphere. Whenever I stumbled across the negative magnetic anomaly, I thought, that’s odd. But primarily my interest was in the positive magnetic anomaly, where we also found similar phenomena – except the blood worship. The blood worship only happened in negative magnetic anomalies.

You have this common factor, the duality of both sides, and this is something that appeared in the book pretty early on, about this idea of a story that has gone through generation after generation after generation in which it’s them against them. It’s black versus white. It’s yin versus yang. It’s always these sides that are coming together, warring factions that are coming together, and humanity is caught in them.

This story is like a broken record. We find it time after time after time after time, coming through. We even found it in the Bible, the fall of the angels, and the demons versus the angels, the light versus the dark. Even within the faery realms within Scottish traditions, we also find it: the seelie and the unseelie. It’s always there. The only thing that changes is the appearance. The way they tend to appear to us is the mask, and that continually changes.

But the communication with these beings – and it still goes on today – when established properly, the information that is passed through, time and time again, we find is on sociology, government, economics, warfare, crime, medicine, engineering, and science. That raises huge red flags because we’re being told the same thing is what happens time and time and time again.

But whenever we get suspicious of the source, when we get suspicious of the messenger and we start pressing the messenger on particular aspects, it’s amazing to see how that communication breaks down. That we see within various experiments around the world. One of those particular experiments was the Scole experiments that happened in Eastern England in the 1990s. That was an experiment that was based in a basement in Scole.

Twice a week, these people were coming together and holding a séance in the darkness of the basement. Communication was established, and the amount of phenomena that came through was fantastic. It was really worth its weight in gold. In fact, scientists then started to get pulled into this. They all wanted to experience this particular phenomenon.

This phenomenon itself, I should add, was not just the usual “Uncle Arthur has come down and through,” nothing like that. This was high end phenomena. In fact, one particular instance – I interviewed one person who sat in the séance, and during the séance an arm physically appeared and touched the person on the arm. He reached across and was able to follow the arm, in solid state, up to the elbow joint. After that there was nothing.

So the idea of phenomena being able to materialize is not a problem. You were pointing out that there was pigeonholing within phenomena. We need to remove ourselves from that idea. We need to see there is a bigger picture here. The idea that this phenomena can materialize stuff – and during the sitting of Scole, small UFO craft were also witnessed in minute, and they were observed flying around the room, producing their own light. All of this was recorded and documented.

And not only that, but there was something else that appeared in the séance room that really made us stand up and pay attention, because in one particular instance when they were using a video camera, something appeared that became known as the being Blue [sp]. It was a Grey Alien. What was a Grey Alien doing appearing in a séance room? Never mind the UFOs.

So we were seeing this common factor coming through, this commonality. But what was happening in the Scole experiment during the 1990s, we thought it was original, it was fantastic. But that wasn’t the case, because we were also able to find this phenomena had also happened with Russell Targ and the guys over at Livermore laboratories in the United States. What was happening to them was just as bizarre as what was happening in Scole, but 20 years earlier, and it was happening in daylight.

So the rule of having to operate in darkness does not apply. That in itself is another deception. They were making phenomena appear in daylight. And one of those phenomena was a huge arm that appeared in the middle of a room, and instead of a hand it had a hook, and it rotated itself as if it was showing off to these people. The scientists stopped. They were told, they were instructed, “Stop this. Stop what you’re doing now.” The scientists believed they were going to end up being crazy.

But that particular phenomena as well also appeared in the early 1970s, before Livermore laboratories. There was a university in Indiana that wanted to try to make contact with this phenomena using lights into the night sky. This is way before CE5 and things like that. It was a precursor to what was about to happen. And these people did make contact with this particular phenomena, but they just didn’t understand what was going to happen, because like Livermore laboratories, the phenomena followed them back to their homes.

They started experiencing rapping sounds, disembodied voices, furious poundings on the walls, and I’ve experienced that myself when delving into the UFO phenomena. The banging on our stone walls here at the house was like nothing else. The dog was going berserk. Physical attacks from unseen entities, and dark clothed figures were appearing within the rooms, and problems also with electrical equipment were all unfolding after making contact with the UFO. So we’re seeing this paranormal nature coming into this particular phenomenon, and it was getting more and more out of control.

JIM HAROLD: Angel encounters. People think that they have these encounters with a beautiful angel and it wishes them well or is trying to help them and those kinds of things. Under your framework, are those not what they seem to be?

BARRY FITZGERALD: No, they are not, unfortunately. This is something we need to accept and challenge. When we go back far enough into the history books, the research has already been done that shows that this idea of what we perceive today as angels did not exist prior to 584 B.C. There is archeological theory out there to support the idea that we have of the archangels was derived from Babylonian planetary gods that Ezekiel was using to help solidify the monotheistic belief system in one God.

The planetary gods of Babylon became the angels of this one God, the messengers of this one God, and that really challenges us to question where we are pulling our help from. I’m reminded of a particular phenomenon that was used and mentioned within the clay tablets of Mesopotamia in which if your house was being haunted by a demon, for instance, then you called in a greater demon to aid you in removing the lesser one. I’m very, very cautious about what we use to call in, because we have to understand the history behind them.

There is a lot that hides within that blanket of obscurity, and it’s up to us to disseminate that and break it apart and expose what is behind that. I am not by any means a God basher or anything like that. What I’m saying is that we need to step back, readdress our belief, and understand where it has come from and what’s developing from that. The archetypes that we’re creating have now fundamentally changed what we perceive things to be over 2,000 years. It is not what they were originally were. That is exceptionally problematic.

JIM HAROLD: Are demons real?

BARRY FITZGERALD: This is where we get into the mask phenomenon. When you go back, for instance, into ufology, then you slip back into the faery traditions, you’re back into the djinn. You keep going back, then you end up medieval Europe and you’ve also got the demonic medieval aspect that was happening there. It’s interesting to see carvings that were coming from medieval Europe, wood carvings that show small impish creatures with long rods. They’re using those to stick and penetrate into people’s abdomens.

JIM HAROLD: I’ve heard that before.

BARRY FITZGERALD: Isn’t that what the Greys do? [laughs] It’s just about understanding and seeing the phenomena, how it interacts with us back through history. It’s the way we can track it today. Demons, there are the same aspects, the same origin. They come from the same origins as what we’re looking at with this modern phenomena.

JIM HAROLD: So when people talk about extraterrestrials, it’s your view that they’re pretty much off base – that this is not coming from another star system, this is not coming from another planet, this is all part of a darker, more veiled entity or entities?

BARRY FITZGERALD: I have no problem believing that there is life in other solar systems, maybe even in our own solar system. But whether it’s coming here to Earth is another thing altogether. Like what we said before, before 1947, before the Roswell crash, here in Ireland I have documentation which clearly shows at the turn of the 20th century that people were having encounters with cylinders, these UFO craft that had windows along the side and could land in water, producing huge amounts of steam within the lake. And then they rise up and enter into a sacred stone structure.

When we start pushing this back, we start finding more and more and more accounts within the Irish traditions, along with other traditions worldwide, that show that this particular phenomenon has been here for a very, very long time and is not from 1947. There is an age with this, and it’s about stripping that away.

Don’t get me wrong; there is phenomena happening in our skies today that we’re being told is UFO, and it’s true in a sense it is UFO. My other problem is that we’re also changing the “UFO” term into “UAP.” So now we’re shelving “UFO.” We should not be because that’s how we’re able to discern what was the original phenomena and what’s the new stuff that we are making. The Tic Tac was one of our technology, and to see how that was developed and how the fleet were kitted out to track these high-speed targets – it’s all there for us to see. The paper trail is there.

It gets very, very difficult whenever we’re starting to track the original phenomena and trying to discern it from our technology. There is a difference, though, and that’s something we’re going to be looking at in the next book. The frequencies at which they are communicating to us is exceptionally different to the technology that we’re using. There is a huge amount of documentation out there now that shows that when people enter into interaction within 10 or 100 meters of the modern UFO craft, it’s leaving huge amounts of biological impact with the viewers.

JIM HAROLD: I’ve heard that.

BARRY FITZGERALD: That didn’t happen back in the 1800s. It was a very, very different kettle of fish altogether. But the new stuff, the new technology that we’re using is operating at a much higher frequency. That is how we’re starting to split this investigative field apart in that we can discern “That’s ours, ignore that; let’s look this way and get back to the originals.”

JIM HAROLD: So if there are a group of entities who do not necessarily wish us well, should we really be out ghost hunting?

BARRY FITZGERALD: [laughs] Well, there is the big question. There was a series of questions that was asked during some paranormal research in California, and this went global. The question was continually asked during EVP sessions: “How do you see us?” It kept coming back time and time again as “Light.” For that particular phenomena, the way it comes through the veil, it’s identifying us via the light we’re producing.

It reminds me of a warning I was given when I wrote The Influence back in 2012. This very unusual warning – I’m not even going to go into how I received it – was delivered to me, and it said, “Don’t become too bright, or they see you.” That wasn’t answered until years later as to what that actually meant. That is something we need to consider.

Also, we need to be able to listen to our instinct. We need to reconnect to our instinct. Technology is not serving us well at that, especially when we’re going out to a paranormal investigation. Now there are so many bells and whistles that that is locking us within the conscious brain. We’re watching the bells and the lights flash back and forth, most of the time not even understanding why they’re flashing back and forth, and that is not allowing us to listen to our God-given right, I suppose – our instinct, our gift of discernment. That is one of the most powerful things we can use.

But within modern society, that can be interfered with. What we eat and consume can shut down our body’s fight or flight response. The likes of refined sugar will shut that response down, so we are effectively going into a situation blind. That should not be the case, because when we encounter this particular phenomenon, the hair rises on the back of our neck. In all the different fields of investigation, our hair goes up on the back of our neck. Adrenaline is being pumped through our system because that’s our instinct. That’s the ID of our instinct telling us, “Get ready to move.”

When we go into a house, for instance – real estate know that 75% of houses are sold on feeling. We walk in and go, “Oh, this is nice.” It could be just four white walls. What is that? What is that that we’re picking up on? Likewise, with four white walls, we could walk in and go, “No, I don’t like this.”

JIM HAROLD: Sterile.

BARRY FITZGERALD: “I don’t want it. I’m leaving.” That in itself could be an indication from our own instinct telling us, “Be aware. There’s another shadow here.” We activate at that particular moment. Those are the warning signals we really need to get back to, and they’re exceptionally subtle, and they can be easily interfered with.

Whenever we consider, especially from a Celtic perspective, we identify that there are liminal points within the year in which the veil between us and them becomes thin, and these beings can slip through back and forth, that can be very, very problematic because the likes of say Halloween, for instance – we go out and we have trick-or-treating and everything else. Understand that children within the ages of two to six operate primarily within the theta brain rhythm. That places them in a perfect mindset to have these experiences with these things that come through.

Also, between the ages of seven and thirteen, there’s a filter that thickens over the eyes, so it narrows their spectral sensitivity. They can no longer see into the outer edges of the infrared and ultraviolet. So as adults, we can no longer see what we saw as children.

But the likes of Halloween, at a time when it’s at one of those liminal places, what do we do with our kids, the people who are the most sensitive within the human race? We feed them full of candy. We shut down their ability to discern what’s coming through. So there are things we need to look at and work on, but yeah, that’s where we are with it.

JIM HAROLD: We’ll be back with Barry right after this on the Paranormal Podcast.

The Paranormal Podcast is brought to you by ParaBox. ParaBox is your source for amazing, one-of-a-kind paranormal t-shirts that are not only great t-shirts, but they’ll actually lead you into online mysteries. We’re joined today by the mastermind and the founder of ParaBox, Jim Hamilton. Jim, tell us a little bit about ParaBox.

JIM HAMILTON: ParaBox is a monthly t-shirt subscription box with our shirts being themed around paranormal topics, like ghosts and haunted locations, UFOs and aliens, cryptids, urban legends, and other mysterious topics like that. But what makes our shirts a truly unique experience is that every shirt has a built-in puzzle. The artwork on each shirt design contains a hidden password, and that password can be used on a specific URL on our website that will unlock a monthly challenge.

JIM HAROLD: I want to mention you’re a graphic designer, and a great one. You do a lot of work for me, and I appreciate it, and you do a great job. We’ve worked together for years. But the thing I want to say is that this is such a great idea – ParaBox, that is. I’ve got to believe you’ve had a great response from your members.

JIM HAMILTON: We’ve been at this since 2017 and have had great reviews thus far. Our product is designed to have some user interaction and to get your brain gears moving. Whether you’re trying to solve it individually or as a family or even a group of friends that are competing against each other to see who can solve the challenge the fastest, it’s more than a cool t-shirt. Which, by the way, expect to be asked about it while you’re wearing one because I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been asked about one of my ParaBox shirts when I’m out and about.

JIM HAROLD: And those designs are really something, I’ve got to say. My daughters absolutely love them and they wear the shirts all the time. They kind of fight over them. [laughs] It’s kind of funny here in the Harold household. So where do you get the ideas for these designs?

JIM HAMILTON: Ever since I was a kid, digging through the paranormal books at the local library, I can always remember having a curious mind. Even today, I love to find a topic that I can explore deeper and take down the rabbit hole. What we wanted to do was give our subscribers that same experience and explore new paranormal stories, and old paranormal stories that they haven’t heard in a while or that they want to explore deeper and learn more about.

JIM HAROLD: You’ve gone the extra mile and set up a special URL, a special webpage for our listeners where they can get a great deal, right?

JIM HAMILTON: Jim, if your listeners want to jump on over to, there they can read some of our reviews and they can also get a promo code for 25% off all subscription plans.

JIM HAROLD: That’s so cool, Jim. Thank you so much for doing that. I appreciate it, and I know our listeners out there appreciate it, too. You heard the man; go to That’s, and get that deal, 25% off a ParaBox monthly subscription. I highly recommend it. Thanks, ParaBox.

Follow Jim on Twitter and Instagram @thejimharold, and join our Virtual Campfire Facebook group at Now back to the Paranormal Podcast.

JIM HAROLD: We are indeed back on the Paranormal Podcast. Our guest today is Barry Fitzgerald. As we close out – and again, I’m going to put the graphic up again if you’re watching on video – the book is The Deception of Gods and Men by Barry Fitzgerald and Brian Allan. How do we protect ourselves against whatever these things are, these entities that do not wish us well? What is our best protection?

BARRY FITZGERALD: Deception is paramount. That is essential for their operation. For instance, when we’re in a paranormal investigation, we use a voice recorder. We say, “Is there anyone there? Can you come forward?” That intent is the key point. That intent is enough to open that doorway to allow communication.

The problem is, within today’s society, we rarely close that door. That can be very, very problematic because there may not be anything happening within the term that they were at the investigation, but two days later, or two weeks later, or two months later, something may actually come through, which can be a problem.

What lies behind that particular veil, it would seem according to the research we were doing, is a dimension of nothing. Absolutely nothing. There isn’t light, there’s no dark, there’s nothing physically. This is where these things return to. They return to a place of nothing. And if we open that doorway, they want back to this world of light, but they cannot stay here indefinitely. They have to hook onto us. That attachment has to happen.

And that attachment can happen throughout researching cryptozoology, ufology, the paranormal. You will find all the different components within that share a common factor: they can hook and bait us on how that takes effect. And there are also cases in which people can openly offer themselves up and allow this connection to happen, but that’s a totally different kettle of fish.

But primarily how to defend yourself is to challenge what is coming through. For the people who work within these areas, challenge what is coming through. Question it. Really study it. Good science starts with observation, and it’s rare for us now to observe. This is vital within this world of shadow. We have to really concentrate on this and knuckle down and challenge what is coming through.

There is some good information that can come through, but the problem with the human race is that when we’re given four lies to one truth, within our heads we seem to have this crazy thing. We throw away the four lies and concentrate on the one truth and believe everything else that comes through. No, folks. If it lied to you once, it will lie to you again and again and again until it gets what it wants.

JIM HAROLD: Very interesting indeed.

BARRY FITZGERALD: There is a wonderful line out there by a fellow researcher, and I just absolutely loved it. It really speaks volumes when we consider what the book is about and challenging what is coming through. Do not accept the first thing that comes along. It comes from a book called UFOs: Caught in a Web of Deception by R. W. Boeche. He wrote it in 1994.

He said, “The true shepherd goes through the main gate instead of jumping over the fence. The real homeowner walks through the front door instead of climbing through the window. The man who wants to tell us the truth, even if he comes from another planet, broadcasts it openly instead of whispering it into the ears of the helpless captives in the middle of the night.” That is where I shall end.

JIM HAROLD: There you have it. The book is The Deception of Gods and Men by Barry Fitzgerald and his co-author, Brian Allan. It has been a pleasure, Barry, to speak with you today. Where can people find this book? And it sounds like there might be another one coming down the road, but where can they find this book and connect with everything you do?

BARRY FITZGERALD: They can find it on Amazon. It’s called The Deception of Gods and Men, and it’s available in paperback, hardback, eBook, and also, my favorite, the audiobook. It’s all available through Amazon.

JIM HAROLD: Barry, thank you for joining us today. It has indeed been an eye-opening and fascinating conversation.


JIM HAROLD: Thank you for tuning in to another edition of the Paranormal Podcast. If you enjoy what we do, particularly on this show – because sometimes I think Campfire (no pun intended) burns so brightly, it kind of overshadows this show – we want to start pushing this show a little bit too, honestly, because we think we have some great guests, some great content. You might not always agree with our guests; I don’t always agree with our guests. But it’s always a fascinating discussion. I love having these discussions, and I know a lot more people would enjoy hearing these discussions if only they knew about the show.

Now, as I’ve said many times, we don’t have these huge marketing budgets, but we have something more important: we have you. A couple things you can do to help us out in that regard and spread the word about the Paranormal Podcast.

First and foremost, make sure that you have followed or subscribed in the app of your choice. That’s number one.

Number two, please put a rating and review wherever possible on your favorite podcast app. People say, “It doesn’t matter. That doesn’t help you on the charts. It doesn’t increase your downloads.” But I disagree, because there’s a lot of podcasts out there. There’s a lot of paranormal podcasts out there. But if people see those reviews, they say, “Hey, Susie from Hawaii or Sandy from California or whoever it might be says this is a great show. I think I’ll check it out.” I think that’s so important to have those up-to-date, new reviews and have them coming in. So please, if you enjoy what we do, rate and review.

And finally, please show and tell a friend. If it’s someone that you communicate with in person, show them on your phone. Show them how they can get the shows on their phone, specifically the Paranormal Podcast – and the others too, if you’re so kind to do that. And then also, if you’re online, please share in your online communities – Discord, Reddit, Facebook, Instagram, whatever it might be. Share with your online groups and communities this show. I would appreciate it very much.

We thank you for tuning in, and we’ll talk to you next time. Have a great week, everybody, and as always, stay safe. Bye-bye.

[outro music]