Experiences with Non Human Intelligences – The Paranormal Podcast 806

Encounters and experiences with non-human intelligences. They are real and worthy of academic study.

Dr. D.W. Pasulka joins us to talk about her serious work on interviewing these experiencers, how they relate to historic accounts and what all of this may mean. 

We talk about her new book, Encounters: Experiences with Nonhuman Intelligences: Explorations with UFOs, Dreams, Angels, AI and Other Dimensions, and her research on this edition of The Paranormal Podcast.

You can find Diana’s new book here: https://amzn.to/3QlWFuo

Thanks Diana!


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Jim (00:00):
The subject are encounters, experiences with non-human intelligences. Our guest is Dr. DW Pasulka on this edition of the Paranormal Podcast.

Announcer 1 (00:00:24)
This is the Paranormal Podcast with Jim Harold.

Jim (00:00:27):
Welcome to the Paranormal Podcast. I am Jim Harold. So glad to be with you. It’s all over the news. UAPs, UFOs, what does it mean? Reports of non-human craft, non-human intelligences, possibly. How do we make sense of it all? Well, we’ve got a great person to speak with today, Dr. DW Pasulka. She is the author of a brand new book, “Encounters Experiences with Non-Human Intelligences, Explorations with UFOs, Dreams, Angels, AI, and Other Dimensions”. Now, Dr. Pasulka was kind enough to say I could call her Diana, so I’ll take advantage of that. And I thank you. Diana is a professor of religious studies at the University of North Carolina Wilmington. She’s written several books including “American Cosmic” and “Heaven Can Wait”. Dr. Pasulka’s research spans Catholic history to modern day reports of UAPs and UFOs. Dr. Diana, so glad to have you on the show. Thank you for joining us today.

Dr. Diana Pasulka (01:33):
Yeah, thanks for having me on your show.

Jim (01:35):
So I have to ask, I mean, you are honest to goodness, academic, intellectual, and I think there’s the perception out there that people who have your profile, academes, kind of think this stuff is silly, that it’s just so much woo woo, but you don’t fall into that category. How did you get into this question of UAPs, UFOs and non-human intelligences? Why did you become involved with this with your great background?

Dr. Diana Pasulka (02:10):
Okay, yeah, thanks Jim for asking me that question. So yeah, I came into this by accident actually, and let me say just a bit about my field, which is religious studies, people who do religious studies. We are academics, we tend to be historians or archeologists, and we look at religion as a phenomena that has important social impact and effects. Most of the world’s population, they are religious so it’s an important thing to study. You see it in different disciplines, but we actually just focus on religion. Our belief doesn’t actually impact generally the kinds of conclusions that we come to. We could be atheists, Buddhists, Catholics, generally we’re trained academically, so we don’t actually weigh in on the truth or falsity of what we study. And my field has been the study of Christian history and things like afterlife ideas of, I wrote a book about purgatory, which is a Catholic doctrine.

Dr. Diana Pasulka (03:16):
In fact, today’s All Souls Day, it’s November 2nd, and that’s the day that Catholics worldwide pray their relatives into a better place in purgatory or heaven. So it’s a doctrine of the Catholic Church. So I was doing work in this field and I started to see reports in old documents, say from 1400s on to the 1800s of aerial phenomena. And honestly, I didn’t think about UFOs. It didn’t occur to me that I was looking at reports of UFOs, but I really was looking at reports of unidentified aerial phenomena. And what I did was I shared these reports with some friends of mine who are academics, and they’re the ones who said, “Oh, this looks like Steven Spielberg films, Diana, you should check it out.” And that’s when I started to get into looking at modern reports of unidentified aerial phenomena.

Jim (04:18):
So when you were looking at this at the beginning, it sounds like you weren’t necessarily a believer per se, but you were someone who had an interest in reporting and exploring the experiences that people reported from an arm’s length academic view. As you started to get into this, did that viewpoint start to change in any way?

Dr. Diana Pasulka (04:41):
Okay, so sure. I did start this topic as a complete non-believer and maintain this position of non-belief, neither believing nor disbelieving. And what I found in what was really complicated about the beginning of the research, which started in 2012 for me, was that I started to meet people who were associated with the government affiliated with different programs in the government, and they were actually studying the same things that I was studying, and they were actually interested in my work and my historical work into the phenomenon. And that’s when I began to work with people like that. One of them is since I used a pseudonym for him in my first book, and he’s since come out as himself, and that’s Dr. Gary Nolan at Stanford University. And I started to work with people like him, and these are really credible people. They’re believers and they believe that they are studying this topic. And so that was complicated for me because this was in 2012 up to about 2017, and I still maintained a disbelief in the topic. And then of course, the New York Times published their exposes of a program that I was studying the people in that program. So that’s when it kind of blew up. And from here on out, the government has been more transparent about their studies into UAPs.

Jim (06:20):
You’re talking about historical accounts. Is there maybe a historical account that you could share with us that very much parallels what we hear today? You said that they could be ripped out of the pages or out of the frames, I guess, of the films of Steven Spielberg. So I guess my question is could you kind of recount one of those experiences that if you didn’t know when it came from, you would swear it was a sighting in 2023?

Dr. Diana Pasulka (06:51):
Yeah, absolutely. So one account I actually did put into the book that I wrote about purgatory, and this was published in 2012, so this is a nun in Europe. She’s in France, and she’s a young nun in a convent in France. And every day when she goes to her cell, she’d try to sleep, but this object would come through her wall. And she described it as a disc like shape, kind of like an orb coming through her wall and spinning around in her cell. And she was terrified and she couldn’t sleep. So she went to the head of the convent who was a priest, and she said, there’s this thing in my room at night, I can’t sleep. And he did not believe her, but she maintained her story day after day. So finally the mother superior of the convent said, well, I’ll come in your room at night and I’ll check it out.

Dr. Diana Pasulka (07:52):
And indeed, she also saw the orb come through the wall and she confirmed the young nuns report. And what that community did was they decided that this had to have been a soul from purgatory that needed to be prayed back into purgatory. So they all went and they prayed. I think it took two weeks or so, but they all prayed that this orb, which they believed was a soul, would go back into purgatory. And so something like that, I would see. Also, like flying houses. People in the 1700s would look up the sky and they’d either see things that they would call ships. Obviously they’re not seeing airplanes or drones, but they would call them ships or houses. And they would most often, because they come from a religious culture, they would identify these as angels or the houses of the virgin Mary or something like that. They would give it an interpretation that was religious.

Jim (09:00):
Now, I think most of us who have followed this any time and who consider ourselves to be believers, for the most part, I think we kind of err towards the side of like, oh, if there is something to this, it has to be aliens, it has to be ET. But the more I’ve talked to different people over the years, the weirder the subject tends to get when people think about this as simply being, if they’re not military craft, which I’m sure some are, if they’re not hoaxes, which I’m fortunately, I’m sure some are, if it isn’t mistaken people, which I’m sure sometimes it isn’t, sometimes it’s drones, but there’s a certain percentage that I believe that are something else. I think most of us, again, particularly people who’ve been following this for a long time, tend to go right to the ETH, the ET hypothesis. But that really might be an oversimplification because a lot of it can’t be explained by that. What are your thoughts?

Dr. Diana Pasulka (10:04):
Well, yeah. So if you do look at, say, government projects that are now declassified or unclassified, and you see that there’s a good lot of what we see can be explained, but then there’s the certain percentage that cannot, the 4% or something like that. And today when I talk to people who do study it and in official capacity, they’re not necessarily thinking of it in terms of something from another galaxy or planet, although they’re not ruling that out either. They tend just not to conclude, I think that some of them are thinking that it could actually be something here within our environment, terrestrial, but not human. And some are thinking of it in terms of things that are perhaps like interdimensional. So I think that at this point, most of the people who are most credible just are not making conclusions about what it is. They just don’t know.

Jim (11:13):
Are there situations, could you explain to us some of these weird situations where paranormal activity seems to accompany sightings? We’ve heard of those kinds of stories and those fascinate me.

Dr. Diana Pasulka (11:28):
Yes, of course. Because you have a paranormal radio show.

Dr. Diana Pasulka (11:32):
So yes, it’s going to be interesting. Okay, so this is something that we found is that if we’re keeping an open mind and looking at this data, what we’re seeing is that people do see aerial phenomenon, and this can be corroborated by say, radar reports and things like that. But in addition to that, which is very non-controversial, right? I mean, okay, so they’re seeing something and it corresponds to an objective data point. They also have experiences. So some people when they see, say a craft or what we call it is a craft, but we really don’t know what it is, they’re also experiencing dreams that are strange to them that they don’t believe they would call them lucid dreams. Dreams in which they believe that they’re awake and things like that. So kind of paranormal events around the sighting of this objective thing that they see.

Jim (12:36):
Now, I believe in the book, you say something to the effect, and I’m sure I’m not seeing it right or oversimplifying it, but that maybe seeing a UFO opens someone’s mind or ability to perceive other things. Is that correct? And if so, can you talk about that a little bit?

Dr. Diana Pasulka (12:57):
Okay, so I don’t know if it opens one’s mind, but you can say that these kinds of activities accompany the scene of these other craft too. So these things happen together, and the connection between the paranormal events and the objective thing that they’re seeing, I don’t know what it is. I don’t know if there’s something that happens to them that then makes them more susceptible to seeing these kinds of things. But I do know that they happen together. So that if, say, let’s take an example from the book. So you have a person that has seen things that we would call UAPs. We don’t know what they are, we rule out drones and planes and things like that. Well, this person is also reporting events like what he or she would then call angels or things that are not necessarily good like malign. Some would call them shadow people or things like that.

Jim (14:05):
We’ll be back with this fascinating conversation with Dr. Diana Pasulka right after this.

Announcer 2 (14:17):
If you love the Paranormal Podcast, be sure to check out Jim Harold’s Campfire where ordinary people share their extraordinary stories of ghosts, UFOs, cryptids, and terrifying encounters. Find it for free wherever you listen to this podcast. Tune into Jim Harold’s Campfire today. Now we return to the Paranormal Podcast.

Jim (14:38):
One quick note before we get back to the Good Doctor and our fascinating conversation. I just wanted to mention we have a new Etsy shop as part of our Mausoleum of Merch. You can find that at jimharold.com/merch, jimharold.com/merch. And your support allows us to continue to do fascinating interviews like this one.
In regards to your experience with Experiencers, I’ve got to believe many times they feel like they’re not heard. People think that they’re, for lack of a better phrase, crazy. But I’m assuming in your interactions that a good percentage turn out to be extremely smart, credible people. What do you find in regard to Experiencers? What is your experience with Experiencers?

Dr. Diana Pasulka (15:33):
Yeah, sure. So I know a lot of Experiencers obviously now since I’ve been doing this for a while. And what I found is that most people will have these experiences, of course, do not want to talk about them because in our culture, the culture that we live in is the United States, and we could call it an ostensibly secular culture, which means that we don’t fall back a lot on religious interpretations of these phenomena, therefore, we’ve lost the ability to talk about this and we’ll say, okay, something happened to me. It was really weird, and then I saw something last night, and then I had these really terrible dreams and I couldn’t sleep very well. And you can’t necessarily go to work and tell your coworkers that you’ve had these experiences. So end up telling your friends, and a lot of times your friends will think also, you shouldn’t talk about that.

Dr. Diana Pasulka (16:29):
That’s crazy. So basically when I would talk to people, and I’m going to have an example here, Kary Mullis, he is a person who won the Nobel Prize in chemistry, and he’s a really well-known scientist. He’s passed away last year, but I spent a lot of time with him talking about his experiences because he had an experience that he would call for want of a better description, a UFO sighting. It accompanied a little being that he described, and the description is so weird that a lot of people thought they didn’t really want him to talk about it, but he thought it was really important. So he actually did talk about it, and he had experiences like this. So I’ve met a lot of scientists. In fact, I include some of them in my book who’ve had these experiences, and some of them won’t come out as themselves, the bravest of them or not the bravest of them, I would say just some of them would come out and say, yeah, I had these experiences. And so somehow I feel like they’re somehow related to my scientific breakthrough or something like that. So a lot of times we’re talking about people who are super creative, who are having these experiences and they don’t know what to think about them, but they’re not going to deny that they’ve had the experiences.

Jim (17:48):
You talk about the potential of them being terrestrial from here, not from out there. So if they are terrestrial, are they from under the ocean? Are they from the deep earth? Are they somehow in an interdimensional where we can’t see them, but they’re here right next to us? Are they ghosts? I mean, what are the theories out there? And are there any that you gravitate? If they are terrestrial, what does that really mean? What does that mean? What are they?

Dr. Diana Pasulka (18:20):
Yeah. So I think that that is fascinating, and I want to bring your attention to a book that was written by Jacques Vallée in the 1960s, actually 1968. Yeah, so that’s called “Passport to Magonia”. And what’s really interesting about that book is he’s using a method that’s very similar to what we do in religious studies, is he’s taking a modern experience that people have the experience of the UFO or the UAP. And what he’s doing is he’s putting into cultural context of the Western tradition, like the fairy lore of Ireland and Scotland and things like that. And the patterns are very similar.

Dr. Diana Pasulka (19:02):
And also another thing that I do in my book is I look at some of the lore of indigenous cultures. So people from say some indigenous cultures believe that they’re already in contact with beings that are either from star nations or beings that are already here or atmospheric associated with the earth. But that in our culture, we don’t talk about. So we do have traditions that are historical traditions that have been handed down that do discuss these things. I also want to point out, you’ve brought up the idea of interdimensionality. Within the Western tradition, you have philosophers like Plato and Socrates who identified some interdimensional objects, the platonic solids. That was a long time ago, and they didn’t have computers to help them. So how did they do this? Well, they were able to do this through using abstract mathematics. And I think that to just deny that there are interdimensional types of things is actually to deny some of the most interesting work that people in our culture have accomplished.

Jim (20:16):
This is something in accounts that I’ve read and heard over the years. It’s always fascinated me. There seems to be, and if you go back to John Keel, for example, the trickster element, like something is, for lack of a better phrase, messing with us. What do you think about the trickster element and did you find that in your research for this book or your other books?

Dr. Diana Pasulka (20:38):
Yeah, so it’s like a union archetype, this idea of the trickster and the trickster. You also see that in, I mentioned in some indigenous cultures, the idea of coyote as the kind of trickster that fools people, shows them their arrogance or things like that. I mean, I haven’t actually encountered that in my work in terms of, I’m basically just looking at people’s experiences and putting them within historical context. And so the trickster hasn’t been something that I’ve focused on, although I’ve read some books about it. And I think that a lot of people think that when you go into the topic of UFO studies, I’m talking about George Hansen’s book called “The Trickster and the Paranormal.” So I’ve talked to George and I just don’t think it’s relevant to a lot of the work that’s being done right now. I mean, not his book in particular, I’m just talking about this idea of the trickster. But if you can say more about what you’re asking, maybe I can go into it a little bit more.

Jim (21:53):
Well, I’ll give you an example. I interviewed Colm Kelleher a while back.

Dr. Diana Pasulka (21:58):
Oh yeah.

Jim (21:58):
And talk about SkinWalker Ranch, where people were looking into the alien question and so forth. And then their family would have paranormal experiences, not even necessarily the people working on their projects, but their family would possibly a thousand miles away at another house. Just it seems like, or, well, I don’t know even know this is trickster, but it’s coincidence. Stan Gordon in Pennsylvania has done work about UFO sightings and correlation of strange cryptic creatures like Bigfoot. So I mean, there has been work done by some people who say, you see a UFO, then all of a sudden you start seeing ghosts. Is this something, and we talked about that earlier, is this something messing with it presenting itself to us in different ways? Some people believe in the idea of screen memories, experiencers see reports, seeing things like strange owls and so forth. So is something putting a face on itself, maybe that’s why the phenomena is so slippery, is because there’s a wizard behind the controls who is changing the way it presents itself to people. I mean, what are your thoughts on that.

Dr. Diana Pasulka (23:15):
Oh okay, I understand what you’re saying now. Yeah. Okay, so this is a really good question. I see two things here. The first one is you’re referring to the Hitchhiker effect. Correct. Okay. Yeah. So the Hitchhiker effect is this idea. A lot of people at SkinWalker Ranch felt that this is something that is a real thing that happens to people is that you’ll go to a place, a geographical location where people are having these experiences, and then somehow this follows you home.

Dr. Diana Pasulka (23:46):
Or it somehow attaches to you and your family and whatnot. So there’s that. And then you’re talking about something that I actually delve into, which is a completely different thing, which is this idea that whatever is happening to people they’re seeing, they might be having the same experience of an event that we would call paranormal because it defies logic and we all see something completely different. So those are two separate things. Alright, and I’m going to address both of them. So the first one I think, or I’m sorry, the second one, which is the seeing of different things and having the same event. You see this in the history of miraculous reports, of miraculous phenomena in religion, and this is one of the things that I saw right away with UFO reports and it correlated with say, looking, I’ve done work in apparitions of the Virgin Mary, where the Virgin Mary will appear to say a group of people and people will see her in different ways. They’ll experience different effects. So you’ll take them into a room and you interview them and they’ll say, “Oh yeah, she had long blonde hair and she said these things to me”, or, “Oh yeah, I saw her. She had long black hair and completely different.”

Jim (25:14):

Dr. Diana Pasulka (25:15):
Yet everyone at the same time said that they saw the Virgin Mary. Okay, now you go to a UFO event. And I did an analysis in encounters of the Brockport UFO event that happened in the 1960s, and I was lucky to be able to meet people who had seen that event in the 60s. So obviously they’re a lot older now, but their memories of it are the same. Now people, witnesses to that event, saw something that was shown on radar. So NICAP also analyzed this Brockport UFO event, and so you know that something was seen, but the reports are so entirely different. The first person who made a report was a person who was a security guard, and he was out doing his rounds, and he said he saw basically a craft and small beings get out of the craft. He called it in and the police thought he was crazy.

Dr. Diana Pasulka (26:28):
He did a report, it made its way to NICAP. The same night other people reported something that appeared to be like the “Close Encounters of the Third Kind” type of craft in the sky. And what’s really interesting is that you have similar data points on radar, but you have completely different reports based on the subjective ideas of the people involved. And what’s also interesting about that specific report, but it’s generalizable to other reports, is that the body that was charged, the government body that was charged, actually they’re not government body, but they did have some people who had been affiliated with studying UFOs in a government capacity that was NICAP. They wouldn’t take the first person’s report as credible just because he said he saw a craft. They thought it was ridiculous, or beings, they thought it was ridiculous and non-credible, yet they took the other reports as credible because they didn’t see beings.

Dr. Diana Pasulka (27:34):
Okay, so you do have this, I cover this also in the first book, “American Cosmic”, where you have two credible witnesses. They happen to be married, one’s an attorney, and the other is a wife just as wife. She doesn’t have a job or that’s her job, and they both see the same event and they both have entirely different descriptions. She describes it as an angel, whereas he describes it as a plasma orb. So definitely this is a feature of UFO events. So the Hitchhiker effect, although I believe this happens, and I absolutely believe Colm and the people at SkinWalker Ranch in terms of descriptions of this, thankfully I haven’t experienced it and nor do I want to do any research on it.

Jim (28:34):
Because yeah, you don’t want to tempt fate.

Dr. Diana Pasulka (28:36):

Jim (28:39):
Now, you mentioned something there about taking reports seriously and not seriously, and I’ll admit that I’m even feel that I’m a little guilty of that. If somebody says, I see a UFO craft and I’ve seen a craft in the sky and it had remarkable abilities, I have to admit that my bias, I’m probably more likely to take that seriously than I am someone who has said, I’ve actually seen an alien, I’ve been abducted, those kind of things, even though I do believe those things happen seriously, I do believe those things happen, but it seems like a higher hurdle of belief. Do you find that, that people tend to believe people who see craft more than people who actually claim to have alien experiences themselves?

Dr. Diana Pasulka (29:31):
Without a doubt. I think that because we do have airplanes in the skies and other things and drones and satellites and things like that, I think that we’re more inclined to believe that people have seen something. We just don’t know what it is. Maybe it’s just unidentified and it turns out to be stealth something or other. So definitely we’re going to be more apt to believe people who see those kinds of things rather than the Kary Mullis type of experience where he actually sees a being and it talks to him and he describes that. And now why? Well, I think that it just, in a sense, it makes sense because we all see things in the sky. I think probably all of us have seen an airplane at one point and said, “Oh, what’s that?” Then we looked at it and we’re like, “Okay, that’s an airplane”. And so we’re able to have empathy with somebody who sees something like that. Also, I don’t think we really want to admit that, say if we do see a being or if somebody sees a being and they’re telling us, that’s pretty frightening, I think, on many levels. So we’re less inclined. We like our aliens on the screen. We like our aliens in the movies, not in real life.

Jim (30:58):
I think it seems somehow if they’re coming down abducting people, it seems far more frightening than if they’re just out in the sky there somewhere. Now in your book you talk about technology and AI. AI is, I just saw is the word, I guess what’s actually the abbreviation, but they’re calling it the Word of the Year. Certainly I’m fascinated by AI. I’m starting to incorporate it in my work, not as doing, some people are doing full podcasts with it. I don’t necessarily believe in that, but helping with artwork and different things, and it can be, I think exceptionally helpful. And I think the implications are going to be absolutely huge. Much like the internet, there’s going to be some great stuff that comes out of it, and I feel very confident there’s some not great stuff coming out of it. But where does AI come into this picture?

Dr. Diana Pasulka (31:47):
So the people who’ve been studying this for a long time, and I’ll reference Steven Dick, who is a NASA historian. He’s been a NASA historian for 40 years, I believe. He’s an astronomer and a historian, and he’s one of the people that has been speculating about intelligent life elsewhere. And when I first started to get into this, I would hear a lot about what possibly if we were to meet ET, what it would be like. And I heard a lot about, well, if we did meet ET, it would be their technology that we would meet. And so I kind of traced it back to his work, and he has some really interesting work from about 20 years ago that he’s actually just updating and I believe releasing in a new book where he basically conjectures. It seems the case that because we are a civilization that is now utilizing AI, and AI is pretty much revolutionizing our lives at the moment and is just going to be exponential in its effects that if we were to meet a type of extraterrestrial, most likely it would be AI or it would be AI of another civilization just because if it’s truly alien, it’s most likely not going to be like we are in terms of we can’t make it to Mars yet.

Jim (33:23):
Yeah, non-biological, in other words

Dr. Diana Pasulka (33:29):
Yeah, non-biological or engineered, biological.

Jim (33:33):
Interesting, interesting. And in some ways though, I think that’s maybe more frightening in the sense that my fear, and I think many people’s fear about if there are, let’s say they are from out there and they are aliens, that by definition their technology is leaps and bounds ahead of what we have just by the fact that they can get here if they are in fact getting here. Now, if you use human history as a basis and you have one civilization’s very technologically advanced that comes into contact with a civilization, let’s say maybe not as technologically advanced, typically it does not work out well for the technologically less advanced civilization. Is that a fair concern or is the thought that if they’re so technologically advanced that they’re spiritually and mentally advanced and they’re so much more enlightened and potentially kind than we are?

Dr. Diana Pasulka (34:36):
Okay, so yeah, these are scenarios of contact, and that’s just one scenario. It holds a lot of assumptions to it, though. I think that those are our assumptions. So our assumptions are that if we were going to meet a civilization and it was going to be technologically advanced because it’s meeting us, of course, that it’s going to be a colonial situation, well, we are the ones who have been that way. So we’re basically afraid of meeting ourselves, but more technologically advanced. No, it wouldn’t go well for us at all, given us. So let’s think about that though, because that just assumes a lot. That assumes that beings are going to be like us and aliens are going to be like us and in many different ways, and that’s just one scenario. I would say that it’s a concern, but it’s one concern among lots of different scenarios.

Jim (35:37):
Now, you had talked in the book about dreams and you mentioned dreams earlier. And I mean, when I think about dreams, I think about a couple of different kinds of dreams. I think about the kind of dream where you go to the supermarket, then you go to the produce section, and then later that night you have a dream that you’re flying on a head of cabbage, which is kind of that kind of mental junk kind of sorting kind of dream. But then you have people who have these incredible encounters and dreams, these spiritual encounters, encounters with past loved ones. Some people encounter God, some people encounter aliens. Can you talk about dreams in the context of this encounter situation and how they come into play? And I know there’s a lot more in the book, but just give us a brief overview of that.

Dr. Diana Pasulka (36:31):
So one of the things that accompanies some of these sightings happen to be these dreams that people have. And I go over a bit of the experiences of dreams of two people that I feature in the book, and one of them is a person who begins to have dreams about not only grays, but also about what he would consider to be angels and demons. And in fact, a couple of people in the book have the similar types of dreams, and the reason why I choose these people is because they’re representative of a lot of people that I’ve talked to. So a lot of people are having dreams about UFOs that they believe are either waking dreams or dreams that are not your normal, like you mentioned, your cabbage dream. We dream of everyday kinds of things that happen to us, but a lot of people who are having experiences with UFOs are also having these kinds of dreams that they were called not normal dreams without exception, not normal dreams. So that’s one of the, I explore those because that’s one of the common points that occurred again and again and again.

Jim (37:50):
You’re an academic, so you are involved in the search for truth. Do you think in our lifetimes we will get to the nub of this subject, or do you think studying the world’s great religions, it’s something that will be studied for decades and hundreds and thousands of years, hence we may never get an answer. We might get better understanding, we might get more clarity, but do you think that there is hope for an answer in the relatively short term, or do you think this truly is something that is just going to be part of the journey of humanity to try to make sense of these experiences?

Dr. Diana Pasulka (38:30):
So I think we can actually make, we can demarcate two things, and that’s the search for extraterrestrial life in the galaxy, which is being done within the fields of exobiology and astrobiology. And here you have some progress being made looking at things on asteroids, biologicals in space, water on exoplanets and things like that. So absolutely, this is going to be game-changing for us in our lifetime. Absolutely. Whether or not we encounter intelligent life is another story. And then we have the experiences of people who are seeing things like what we call UAP or UFOs and then having these subjective experiences. So these, I tend to categorize them a little bit differently, but in each case, I do think that in our lifetime, absolutely, we’re already seeing some game changing things. When I published my first book about UFOs, which was in 2019, I honestly didn’t think that the Pentagon two years later would come along and write the Pentagon report on UAPs. So that already changed the game. Congress is now talking about UAPs and people are coming forward and talking about programs about UAPs again within five years of publication of my book. So it’s already happening very, very quickly. Yes, it’s game changing. It’s happening in our lifetime.

Jim (40:08):
Well, on that journey, it makes sense to do reading from intelligent people, good books about this. That’s how you learn such a book as “Encounters Experiences with Non-Human Intelligences, Explorations with UFOs, Dreams, Angels, AI and Other Dimensions”. Dr. Pasulka, Diana, where can people find the book and where can they find more information about everything you do?

Dr. Diana Pasulka (40:37):
Sure. So the book is on Amazon and Barnes and Noble and wherever books are sold, and I have a webpage, DW Pasulka, and I have a Twitter account by the same name and an Instagram account, and I post regularly.

Jim (40:51):
Well, thank you so much for joining us today. It’s been very enlightening, and again, thank you for what you do because I think it takes a lot of courage, somebody in academia coming out and saying, this is something worthy of serious consideration and serious scholarly study. So you were talking about brave people. I think you are a brave person. Thank you so much for being with us today.

Dr. Diana Pasulka (00:41:14)
Thank you.

Jim (00:41:15)
And thank you for joining us, and we will talk to you next time. Have a great week, everybody. Bye-Bye.

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