Is Dogman Real – The Paranormal Podcast 836

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Dogman might seem like an urban legend but author and filmmaker Aaron Deese says the truth is a LOT more complicated. We talk with him on this edition of The Paranormal Podcast. You can find his recent book on the subject, Hunting Grounds: Dogmen of the Lakes, at Amazon:

Also, Aaron is working on a new Dogman video project with Small Town Monsters but in the interim check out this previous Dogman documentary from Aaron & the STM Team: 

JIM’S NEW CAMPFIRE BOOK! Get your paperback or eBook of Jim’s latest Campfire book, TRUE GHOST STORY: Jim Harold’s Campfire 6.

Get all the links here:

Get Your MONSTER FEST 2 TICKETS Get your tickets to this fantastic cryptid con in Ohio during late June. I will be there and I hope to see you there! 


Jim Harold (00:00):

Dogman, does it exist? Aaron Deese says signs point to yes. We’ll talk about it more on this edition of the Paranormal Podcast.

Announcer (00:23):

This is the Paranormal Podcast with Jim Harold.

Jim Harold (00:27):

Welcome to the Paranormal Podcast. I am Jim Harold and so glad to be with you again. And one of my favorite subjects we talk about on the shows are cryptids. In fact, we don’t talk about them enough, but we’ve got someone today who can help rectify the situation. The man with the plan here to get us back into the cryptid gripped vibe is Aaron Deese, and he is a crucial part of our friends over at Small Town Monsters. And before we get to Aaron’s work on Dogman, which is a fascinating subject, we’ll remind you that Monster Fest is coming up June 29th, 2024, and I believe Aaron, there was a movie the night before even and I will be there doing a live Campfire podcast, and last year was such a great time, Aaron, and I really hope that everybody will join us. There was a lot of camaraderie, a lot of people who knew people online and finally got to meet in person. It was just a great family vibe. I was so impressed for, especially a first year event, just amazing. And I can only imagine it’s going to be bigger and better this year.

Aaron Deese (01:37):

There was a moment at that event last year, it was after the event itself where several of us had gone out to dinner and I looked up and Jim Harold was sitting across from me and I was like, wow, this is really happening

Jim Harold (01:46):

I’m going to say this publicly. I feel like I crashed your dinner. Like the Small Town Monsters, me and Scott from Astonishing Legends. I felt that we crashed your dinner.

Aaron Deese:

No, no!

Jim Harold:

But Seth and everybody there was so welcoming. He said, come on in, come on in. And it was really great. It was really great. I mean, it’s the best event of its type I’ve been to. And again, that’s the first year. That’s the first year. So I hope everybody checks that out. Monster Fest, and it is at or Make sure to get your tickets. I think there’s going to be a great time. So that’s Monster Fest. But today we’re talking about Dogman and, as I said, Aaron is the man to talk about. He has a new exciting book out.


It’s called Hunting Grounds: Dogmen of the Lakes, and we’re so glad to have him with us to talk about it. Aaron’s a San Antonio based author and content producer for Small Town Monsters. He’s the author of two books focusing on the Dogman phenomena: The Texas Dogman Triangle, and Hunting Grounds: Dogmen of the Lakes, and coming soon there’s going to be, I think this is the second film that Small Town Monsters and Aaron have done on Dogman. It’s called Dogman Territory. And I think that’s something to really look forward to and we look forward to our discussion today with Aaron Deese. Aaron, welcome to the show. Thank you for joining us today.

Aaron Deese (03:14):

Thank you so much for having me. I’ve been very excited to sit down and talk with you. So thank you.

Jim Harold (03:18):

So this seems like kind of an elementary question, but maybe there are people out there who have heard of Dogman, but they think it’s like something in comic books or something or something in movies and things, but Dogman appears to be a real phenomena. Can you explain to folks what Dogman is anyway?

Aaron Deese (03:39):

Yeah, absolutely. So at the surface level, we’re talking about a canine form that displays bipedal, ambulatory locomotion, and those are the days I’m trying to sound smart when I’m not. It’s a dog that walks on two legs. That’s essentially what we’re talking about. And descriptions are fairly consistent. We generally hear about pointed ears. We often see glowing eyes. Sometimes we hear witnesses mentioning tails though that’s not as common very often the way they behave is consistent. I’m sure we can get into that. But essentially what we’re talking about is an upright walking canine form. And now as to what exactly these things are, where they come from, that’s a whole ‘nother topic of discussion, but at its base level, it’s a dog that walks on two legs.

Jim Harold (04:21):

Now how common are these sightings? I mean, is it a case where it’s 50% of Bigfoot sightings, 20%, or if we compare to something like the Chupcabra, how common are these Dogman sightings?

Aaron Deese (04:34):

That’s a really good question, and it’s one of those things that we’re kind of evolving on as we go. And I say we just kind of collectively the people who are interested in this stuff and that research it regularly. Because if you’d asked me this question three years ago, I would’ve told you, okay, maybe there’s one or two every couple of years. But the more you look into it, when you especially focus on areas where there’s a high concentration of activities such as Texas and the land between the lakes, you start to see that there’s an overwhelmingly higher number than what I think most people would anticipate. Like in Texas, I looked at about a hundred year span because some of our earliest folk stories concerning upright wolves come from about the late 1800s, and I looked at something like 23 different reports in the state of Texas.


Now that’s not a whole lot when you compare it to Bigfoot activity, but since the Texas Dogman Triangle, the book came out, I’ve had five or six other people contact me and say, Hey, I had a sighting like this. I just didn’t realize that this was a phenomenon. And we’re kind of seeing the same thing in the land between the lakes. We’ve seen similar things in places like Ohio and Wisconsin where there’s a historical precedent for some of this stuff. But the short answer is it’s really hard to say what the comparison to Bigfoot sightings would be because we have so many, but we’re getting so many more dog band sidings with such increasing frequency. I think that’s an answer that’s going to evolve as we go.

Jim Harold (05:52):

So okay, the FBI, when they look at a potential culprit, I guess, not saying Dogman’s a culprit, but just they have a profile, right? Might. If you were going to build a profile of the prototypical Dogman as it is reported, what would that profile sound like? What would be your profile of Dogman?

Aaron Deese (06:13):

So it starts with the base description. Like I mentioned a moment ago, the pointed ears, the upright posture. There seems to be either a preference or a comfort with bipedal locomotion on the part of these creatures, and that’s not something we generally see in the canine world. So that’s one of the things that immediately strikes witnesses is this thing is moving around on two feet and doesn’t seem to be having a problem doing so very often these sightings will take place by the road very often if they’re not roadside, they’re taking place near cattle ranches, hunting preserves, national parts, places where the land is kind of controlled. It’s surveyed. Not anybody can just come and go at any time, but it is still a vast wild space where you don’t have a ton of eyes at every point. So there are a lot of hiding places where theoretically some unclassified animal could be hiding out.


Where this gets really strange is when you look at the eyewitness responses and overwhelmingly we see a situation where eyewitnesses who report encounters with these things are left feeling unsettled. They have nightmares, they describe symptoms that sound like post-traumatic stress disorder. You have seasoned hunters and law enforcement officers who don’t go in the woods anymore or don’t go in the woods at night, and that’s something that they’ve been doing their entire lives. So the eyewitness response is what really sets Dogman encounters apart because on the surface, if you’re just looking at it aesthetically, they look a lot like Bigfoot encounters or even some of the stranger cryptid encounters. We hear about, liket the lizard man of Bishopville for example. But when you get into the witnesses and how they react and how it affects them in the years, in some cases decades according to some eyewitnesses that follow, that’s where it gets very, very strange.

Jim Harold (07:55):

Well, it’s interesting because you may or may not be able to hear this, but I have my own dogs here and they’re not Dogman, they’re just dogs and they’re barking because of something. I don’t know what’s up. If you hear a dog…

Aaron Deese (08:04):

This happens often, not surprisingly.

Jim Harold (08:06):

It is not Dogman. It is not Dogman. It is Jim’s dogs. So I thought we worked perfectly rather than stopping and editing. We’ll just acknowledge it and move on. So is Dogman. Would you say, I think a lot of times people view maybe Bigfoot as docile and a creature that wants to be left alone, is Dogman similar? Is Dogman more aggressive?

Aaron Deese (08:31):

The encounters we see, they really seem to personify it as something that is more aggressive, that is more unfriendly. We do have several stories wherein these things are alleged to have attacked people, livestock, domestic dogs and other pets. We see that quite a bit in some of the concentrated areas we have in Texas. Those sightings coincided with alleged cattle mutilations. And then just recently here within the last two years, we had another rash of cattle mutilations pretty much in the same area. If you look at the whole map of Texas, so they’re not described often, really. I’ll take that back. They’re not described ever as being friendly or benevolent. You hear different contrasting tones for Bigfoot encounters, some where they might actually be friendly and they help people lead lost hikers out of the woods somewhere. Very much like you said, they’re animals that seem reclusive and want to be left alone. And then we do see some aggressive encounters, like of course the notorious Ape Canyon story where a group of Bigfoot are alleged to have attacked these miners, I could be getting the details wrong there, but even if 50% of Bigfoot encounters are aggressive, and I’m speaking purely off the cuff, it does not approach the majority that we see in the Dogman world where if they don’t aggressively act or move towards a witness, they still are described as being very malevolent, seeming very angry and dangerous.

Jim Harold (09:50):

Now, talk to us about the eyewitnesses because I think that’s so crucial, to respect witnesses. Talk about your experience with them.

Aaron Deese (09:59):

Yeah, I really love that you said that from the outset that it’s important to respect witnesses because I think sometimes in the research community can get lost on us that everything we do is dependent on eyewitness testimony. So I think that’s a very important place to start. But very often what we’re seeing are folks who are used to being in the wild, they’re accustomed to camping, they’re seasoned hunters, law enforcement personnel who are used to being in dangerous situations, military veterans. That is very, very often what we’re seeing with regard to witnesses, and it kind of speaks to the nature of the locations in which these sightings take place. Now, we do see some that occur in more urban environments that are just everyday folks like me who are not any of the professions I just described, but who still report seeing this very uncanny animal.


But again, very often we’re seeing these folks who are accustomed to local wildlife, they’re even accustomed to strange wildlife, and they come back and say, not only did I see this thing and did it look nothing like anything I’ve seen before, but I have nightmares now. I don’t go in the woods at night anymore. In some cases we’re hearing, I took a shot at this thing, I opened fire on it and it didn’t seem to care. It shrugged it off. It had armor on it or something. So once you get a little below the surface, it does get pretty bizarre. We get into some stories that even I’ll qualify as being somewhat outlandish. I’m not saying they’re not true or that I don’t believe them, but they definitely get into the realm of some very interesting paranormal type stuff.

Jim Harold (11:36):

And I want to talk specifically about the book and the movie, but when you talk about this in the PTSD, specifically from the seasoned hunters and people are used to the wilderness, typically brave people who will just like, oh, whatever I can handle. It almost seems like to me it might be some kind of screen memory for something. What are your thoughts about that? I mean, when we think about these creatures, that’s what I typically think about as animals, but is it possible this particular small town monster, Dogman, has a different facet to it? Is it something that’s a shapeshifter something, or something more than animal that would throw out maybe a screen memory for something that is even more frightening? What are your thoughts?

Aaron Deese (12:26):

I think that’s definitely a possibility, and it’s one of the lines of speculation I find myself on very often because when we’re talking about what is the difference, what is the line between a supernatural entity and a flesh and blood animal? The answer is we don’t really know. We don’t have a definitive definition of what the supernatural is. Everything is speculative. So it’s very difficult to say, well, this is occurring because this is a supernatural entity. It’s possible that it’s an animal that operates on frequencies. We don’t understand yet to use very basic non-scientific language. I’m not a scientist, but we do see a lot, lot of correlation.


I always throw that out there that way. When everyone says, I don’t know what I’m talking about. Hey, I probably don’t, man, you’re probably right. I write books about werewolves for a living. But what we see a lot, in addition to some of the common attributes I described, we see these sightings taking place near graveyards, near iron refineries and iron mining operations, whether they’re ongoing or in the past, we see that somewhat frequently. We see them near Native American areas and tribal lands sometimes, and I’m very hesitant to paint things with a broad brush and say, oh, this is a Native American legend. We need to know, okay, where did that come from? What is the source for this? Make sure we’re not just appropriating and making assumptions about things. But I’ve had the opportunity to speak to a couple folks of Native descent here in Texas who’ve said, yeah, these things are a part of our folklore and a part of our background.


My grandparents told me stories about them. So there is a backdrop and a precedent for this thing that kind of goes across the supernatural realm, both in the fact that it’s present in so many folklores and mythologies, and then also the way that witnesses respond to them and some of the more bizarre elements they described. Some of these encounters involve things like mind speak. Some of them involve things like, oh, I experienced physical paralysis when I saw this thing. I don’t know what that is or what does that or what makes that possible? I’m not a zoologist. So it’s very, very difficult to say, but it does seem that there’s something more going on, at least in some of these encounters or a fair number of ’em other than this is a species of canine that we just haven’t classified yet.

Jim Harold (14:41):

Now I want to talk to you about the book. Now. You had a previous book, so can you talk a little bit about where that book left off, where this one picks and what you’re doing with this specific book, Hunting Grounds: Dogmen of the Lakes?

Aaron Deese (14:57):

Yeah, absolutely. So I should say from the outset, you can read either book and not need to read the other one. You don’t have to do that. I’m not a fan of only telling half the story. I think things should stand on their own. So I will say that, but the Texas Dogman triangle focused on the Dogman phenomenon in Texas specifically. And then I also kind of explored some of the broader reaching implications, like older stories about werewolves and how that might connect to the modern day, different systems of belief and how the werewolf has popped up. And then kind of looked at the Texas activity through that lens. I did the same thing with Hunting Grounds, kind of continuing that process in Tennessee and Kentucky, but I had a broader base of information to operate from, and I was also looking at a different geographical area.


So again, each book is its own exploration of dogman activity in the area that it focuses on, and then also the wider dogman phenomenon. They overlap with each other a little bit. Obviously to get the full thing, you would read both books, but again, I’m not saying, well, you got to read this one to get this one. You don’t have to do that. They’re fine. Yeah, and both books, you have a documentary companion, Texas Dogman Triangle was the Dogman triangle Werewolves in the Lone Star state, which I got to appear in with Shannon Legro. Everybody loves Shannon. Absolutely. And then, yeah, she’s the best. And then Dogman Territory: Werewolves in the Land Between the Lakes. We actually filmed while I was writing this book, so there’s a lot of scenes and B roll in this movie of me taking notes and holding a voice recorder that wasn’t for effect. I actually used all of those notes so they cross over with each other in interesting ways. There are details in the book that don’t make it into the movie and vice versa. That’s just how it always goes when you’re doing two forms of media, but they stand well on their own and they compliment each other very well also, I think.

Jim Harold (16:50):

So, I mean, is there a big difference you found that in the Texas sightings as opposed to this area between lakes? Or is it just kind of more of the same?

Aaron Deese (17:02):

So in Texas, we kind of see a 50-50 split between encounters you might describe as supernatural and aggressive and encounters that you would describe as like roadside sightings. I saw what could be cryptid. In land between the lakes. We seem to get an almost overwhelming majority of reports that are described as aggressive. If you look at the books of Mr. Martin Grove who I had the opportunity to speak with at length for both of these projects, many, many of the reports that arrived on his desk over the years described people being attacked and in some cases killed by these things. And I won’t go down too much of a side tangent, but Mr. Grove was a law enforcement officer in the area around the lane between the lakes for 30 years, and he had his own encounter with one of these things, so that’s why he started documenting this information. So when we talk about credible witnesses and people who are used to being in dangerous situations, but then describe these things and say, I think there’s something dangerous here. He’s kind of one of the people that we can look at as being an example.

Jim Harold (18:02):

Now that I think of it, even on my Campfire show, I think we’ve had a couple of cases that could be described as dogmen, people. I mean, one I’m thinking about specifically years ago, and one may be a little more recent, but the thing is, is that, yeah, this certainly seems to be a thing. Now, we love stories on our shows, and obviously you have many, many stories. They’re in the book, they’re in a documentary. They’re up here too, I’m sure. Could you tell us one of your favorites, one of your favorite stories? It could be from this book, the previous book, the previous documentary, never made it into any of ’em. What’s one of your favorites?

Aaron Deese (18:39):

Oh, man. Yeah, that’s a fun one. That’s a really fun one. I’ll tell you a fun story that is kind of mentioned in the book, but it didn’t make it into the film. There were some segments where while we were filming and while I was writing these segments of the book, these things were happening at the same time. We would need some crucial detail in order to decide how to proceed with the next interview or the next stage of our exploration. Where are we going to physically go and visit next? And some of those details we couldn’t figure out until we actually got on the ground and started talking to people. So there were a few occasions during the filming of Dogman territory where the entire assembled film crew, and I mean Seth Breed Love me, Shannon Legro, Courtney, Heather, Zach, Eli, Alex, I’m sure I’m forgetting someone who was there, and I’m so sorry to whoever that is.


That might actually be it; we’re all just huddled around laptops and tablets. We’re on our phones looking up property records, birth and death certificates, vehicle ownership records, cross-referencing names with other geographic areas. Really what I would describe as it’s a monster movie or a sci-fi movie, and the whole cast is huddled around the piece of alien DNA, trying to crack the puzzle, if that makes any sense. That’s what it felt like to me, and I hate that those segments weren’t filmed because I think it really speaks to the nature of doing this stuff on the ground of doing research in real time and what it’s like making a movie while you’re in the process of investigating something. So that’s something I like to share because to me, I think it’s really cool. It’s a cool little behind the scenes anecdote, but unfortunately it didn’t make it on camera, so.

Jim Harold (20:17):

Yeah, that’s pretty neat indeed. Have you had a Dogman encounter or are you still looking for your first one?

Aaron Deese (20:27):

I have not had one. I do know someone who’s had one, and that’s kind of what set me on this whole journey. I had read the Beast of Bray Road and seen the Bray Road Beast, the documentary at around the same time that this person who’s in my family mentioned, Hey, I saw this thing on the side of the road once I personally have not seen one, and it’s to the point that I kind of hope that I don’t, then I have to make a decision as to whether or not I’m going to talk about that. And then there’s going to be a large chunk of people who reasonably so will say, well, of course Aaron wants you to think he had a Dogman encounter. He writes books about it. So I, I’m kind of hoping I don’t see one. I love taking eyewitness statements and hearing people’s stories, but right now I have the luxury of being an outside observer. So.

Jim Harold (21:13):

Now earlier you had mentioned some reports of dog men actually killing people. I mean, how people were, people just found disemboweled or something along the side of the road. How did that work? What were some of those reports?

Aaron Deese (21:29):

There’s a lot of conjecture about that that comes out of the land between the lakes. Like I mentioned, some of those reports that Martin has recorded, reports that have found their way to researchers like Elijah Henderson, Jesse and Joe Doyle, they have gotten a lot of stories of people who have been attacked by these things in the park. There is a story out of Texas commonly referred to as the Converse Wolfman, and this is a folk tale that goes back probably to the beginning of the 1900s. Some sources say it could be the 1960s, but that seems unlikely to me wherein a farmer’s son who was out hunting deer was also attacked by one of these things, and unfortunately killed. And the farmer and his friends arrived and opened fire on this thing and it ran off and was never seen again. The story about the land between the lakes that often catches people’s attention is this notorious urban legend.


We can refer to it as that at some level, of a family of four who were attacked and killed by one of these things in the 1980s. Now there’s a lot of research that’s been done about whether or not that actually happened. People have very strong opinions on both sides of the fence of the opinion that there is some truth to the root of that. But again, I get the luxury of being an outside observer and not having to make a hard opinion. But again, we kind of see this peppering across the map in areas where there is concentrated Dogman activity of conjecture that not only are they aggressive, but we usually find one or two stories where someone has said to have lost their lives. So not saying it’s true, but that’s where it goes.

Jim Harold (23:00):

Now, this is going to seem like an out there question, although when you’re talking about something like Dogman, I don’t know if there is an out there question.

Aaron Deese (23:06):

Yeah, we’re already beyond the veil, yeah.

Jim Harold (23:09):

But Stan Gordon, who obviously was at Monster Fest last year, talks about the coincidence of Bigfoot settings and UFOs that there tend to be concentrations in the same areas. And that kind of hints at the idea that maybe there’s some kind of connection, and especially since Dogman seems less likely to be just a flesh and blood creature and there might be more play here. Is there any noted kind of correlation with UFO sightings?

Aaron Deese (23:39):

So there is, and there isn’t, and I’m kind of two minds about this. I think when you’re noting one strange incident in a geographical area, of course it’s important and interesting and valid to note the other strange incidences and see how they line up. And that was a part of my research for Hunting Grounds. There’s a whole section on the number of UFO sightings according to the new database as it coincides with certain sightings of dog augment in the book. But at the same time, I believe Cliff Bachman has said something to this effect that to have a Bigfoot sighting, you have to have people and you have to have a place in which it can occur. And it’s kind of the same thing with UFOs and with dog men, and I think also with Bigfoot, you have to be in a place where this stuff is going on and you have to have witnesses.


So I think it’s inevitable that there will be some geographical overlap. But then on the other side of the coin, we not only see an overlap of Dogman activity in areas where we see a lot of UFOs, we also have a ton of hauntings in those areas. We see a lot of Bigfoot activity in those areas. We see sometimes things like missing people or spectral armies or even legends about hidden treasure. We have a ton of those in Texas. So we see an overlap with many different facets of the paranormal world, if you like, and how those things might intersect is anyone’s guess. But there is a geographical proximity at the very least with regard to Texas and the land between the lakes.

Jim Harold (25:00):

Now, here’s one for you. And this is something that’s always fascinated me, and I remember interviewing the great David Weatherly about this years ago, the idea of Tulpas or thought forms, not that I want to be very careful because people get confused when you talk about this. I’m not saying that necessarily. People imagine it. No, they don’t imagine it. They create it. Do you think it’s possible for whatever reason, that people are actually through their thoughts, are creating a creature as opposed to stumbling upon one that was there before? Again, not imagining it, not hoaxing it, but actually creating it with their mind somehow.

Aaron Deese (25:46):

I think there’s a lot of validity to that idea, and it’s one of the things that I’ve speculated on and done, admittedly not enough research because it’s a very deep rabbit hole, but it’s one of the things that I’ve wondered about specifically because we see depictions of these upright canine forms going back as far as ancient Mesopotamia, I’m talking cradle of civilization around the period in history when the epic of Gilgamesh was written, people have speculated that maybe Enkidu was a bigfoot or a werewolf. I don’t really subscribe to that idea, but we do see at least two examples in the form of Uridimmu, the gruesome hound who comes from the Babylonian epic of creation and also the demonic entity, Pazuzu, who a lot of people are familiar with because of the Exorcist movies, they’ve heard of that name. But some early depictions of that entity involve an upright form with a canine head.


So this is an idea that has been with us for a very, very, very long time. And we find it in Europe. We find similar legends in South America. We have, of course, the skinwalker myths of some Native American tribes. So it’s not something that’s limited to one region or one place. And we have to ask, even if this is something that people are imagining, why are we seeing the same thing? Why is it coming up again and again and again? So the idea that this could be something we’re projecting out into the world due to some unknown number of ingredients, maybe our backgrounds, maybe some people are more attuned to the spiritual spectrum. I think there’s a lot of validity to that because it has touched people across civilizations and across history. So it’s a very compelling idea.

Jim Harold (27:26):

I got to ask you doing books on this, I mean, you’ve done two books and now two video projects on it. That’s a lot of time. Does it ever keep you up at night?

Aaron Deese (27:38):

No more than anything else that I’m working on that I’m excited about. When I was in junior high and high school, I could put four to 500 hours into one Final Fantasy or Pokemon game, and I’ve kind of just applied the same thing here, work on it when I can, when I’ve got the drive to do it, there are days when I have to shut myself off and just go, stop thinking about werewolves for a while. So sometimes, but I kind of just do that. I treat it like an exercise in managing my video game time now, just shut it off when it’s time as much as I can. I also have a one and a half year old, so that’s a sufficient distraction.

Jim Harold (28:13):

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Now, let me ask you this. When you did this last project, do you find yourself constantly learning stuff about these things? Because sometimes you would think, well, if somebody spent so much time and so much effort on something like this, hundreds of hours, maybe thousands of hours, it’s like you kind of know all you’re going to know. Do you continue to be surprised by the subject of Dogman and the other subjects that you work with Small Town Monsters on?

Aaron Deese (28:44):

I really do. Yeah. It’s one of those things where you think you have a really comprehensive picture put together, and then you notice something that at first didn’t necessarily seem important, but it’s a common factor in three or four stories. You start chasing that lead and you go, oh, well, this is another piece of folklore that’s connected back thousands of years to different civilizations. I was experiencing that very late actually in the stage of writing Hunting Grounds such that there were leads, if you like, that I had to kind of put on the back shelf and go, okay, maybe this will be in another book again in the future. So I’m very much of the opinion that there is a lot more to this than what we have right now. Just in the scope of everything, books that anybody has written, movies, podcasts that are made on this.


I think there’s a legacy to this stuff that’s still kind of being recorded. And my hope is that in a few years, we’ll know enough to maybe paint a more clear picture. But the short answer is yes. Yes. I think there’s a lot to still uncover. Do you think? And the same with the other stuff too, with, (overlapping speech) sorry, I’m sorry, go ahead. It’s the same with other stuff I work on too. We just finished filming and we just released actually UFOs Revisited, and I’ve been involved in UFO research just as an enthusiast for a very, very long time, and I learned things during the filming of that show that I had never heard before from our panel. Yeah, yeah.

Jim Harold (30:04):

Do you think with Dogman, is there a trickster element to it?

Aaron Deese (30:11):

Again, I think that’s something that we’ve got to speculate about. I think it could be part of the equation. Another thing is, again, we sometimes see these sightings taking place near old iron mines or iron refinery, steel mills, and there’s a linkage between like Fay mythology, the Fay folk fairies, the trickster element, and things like iron and running water. We also see these sightings occurring near sources of water very often. So at least tangentially, at least based on proximity to other legends, there’s definitely something to say there, but I feel like I’m too early in my journey to have an opinion, if that makes sense.

Jim Harold (30:49):

It makes a lot of sense. It was funny, I was asked to be on a show over in the UK as a paranormal expert, and they booked me and it went well and everything, and I said, you could call me an expert if you want to, but you’ll never hear me call myself an expert because I really believe there’s people who know a lot about this stuff. But I don’t know if there’s really any experts, because I don’t know if anybody really knows what’s going on. And I think you kind of said before, I’m not a scientist, and I really admire that because I think when you’re doing this kind of thing, I think it’s important to present yourself to the public in such a way. Say, look, I’m just like you. I’m a fellow explorer. I’m trying to figure out this stuff myself. Here’s what I found. But there’s so much more to learn. I think that’s really important.

Aaron Deese (31:39):

Thank you. Yeah, I agree. I think I mentioned this earlier, but everything we do in the paranormal world is speculative. The only thing I can tell you for sure is that people have these experiences. That’s all that we know for sure. So I think keeping it open-ended and acknowledging potential connections to other things is very, very important. But I know for myself as an enthusiast, someone who watches a lot of documentaries and reads a lot of books, as soon as someone starts telling me they have it all figured out, I kind of tend to shut down. I know they probably don’t, and if they do, they’re the only person that’s figured it out, and there’s really no way for them to prove it. So yeah.

Jim Harold (32:17):

That’s true. Well, one of the people trying to find those answers is Aaron Deese with his books and his movies on the subject of Dogman, Dogmen, Aaron, where can people find this book and the other book?

Aaron Deese (32:33):

Yeah, the best place to find both the books and the films is You can order it straight from us as opposed to going through anyone else. They are also available on Amazon. Dogman Territory will be available on both the shop and Amazon when it premieres later in the summer. But the Hunting Grounds, The Dogman Triangle and the Dogman Triangle film are all available on Amazon and also the Small Town Monster Shop.

Jim Harold (33:02):

Well, Aaron, I hope everybody checks out both of the books and all the Small Town Monsters documentaries you’ve been working on. You guys just do a fantastic job, and I think it’s so neat that here in my home state of Ohio, somebody has built a movie studio dedicated solely to monsters. Who would’ve thunk it? I just think it’s great. So I’m a big fan of everything Small Town Monsters does. I will say this one more time, please. I hope everybody joins us at Monster Fest 2, June 29th, 2024, Canton, Ohio. I would say you better hurry up and get your tickets, and we’ll be doing a live podcast there, and it’ll be a great time and just well done. And I think everybody and kids 12 and under get in free. How cool is that? So Aaron.

Aaron Deese (33:51):

Family riendly event.

Jim Harold (33:52):

Yeah, I look forward to seeing you there. I thank you so much for taking time today and I wish you all the best with the books and the movies.

Aaron Deese (34:00):

Thank you, sir. It’s been a privilege

Jim Harold (34:02):

And thank you for tuning into the program. We appreciate it. If you like what we did, please make sure if you’re watching on video to hit the subscribe button and the notification bell so you never miss an episode. If you’re listening on audio, that’s great, but when you get a chance, tune into the video as well. We enjoy doing these and you get to put a face with the name, not so much me. The less I’m on the camera the better. But with all these great people like Aaron that we get to interview, we’ll talk to you next time. Have a great week, everybody. Stay safe and stay spooky. Bye-Bye.

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