Were The Pyramids Built With Antigravity – Paranormal Podcast 748

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What technology allowed ancient people to build superstructures like the Great Pyramid and Stonehenge? Nick Redfern thinks the answer lies in sound and in an ancient lost technology. We discuss it on this edition of The Paranormal Podcast.

You can find his new book on the subject at Amazon: How Antigravity Built the Pyramids: The Mysterious Technology of Ancient Superstructures

Thanks Nick!


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NICK REDFERN: All of these different types of moving the stones all around the world, it all comes down to sound in one way or the other.

JIM HAROLD: That’s the voice of Nick Redfern, and he asks the question: Were the pyramids and other ancient superstructures built with antigravity? Up next on the Paranormal Podcast.

[intro music]

This is the Paranormal Podcast with Jim Harold.

JIM HAROLD: Welcome to the Paranormal Podcast. I am Jim Harold. So glad to be with you once again, and a quick favor before we get to our guest, who is one of our favorite all-time guests, Nick Redfern. We’re going to talk about his new book, How Antigravity Built the Pyramids.

You know, this time of year people are interested in our kind of content maybe a little bit more than usual, and I would ask you to follow on the app of your choice, certainly rate and review, and then hit that “Share” button and share the show with somebody today. You get them in and they hear people like Nick and they say, “Hey, I want to hear more of this!” So please let people know about the Paranormal Podcast, and also Jim Harold’s Campfire. It would be much appreciated.

And much appreciated is our guest today, Nick Redfern. He has a new book out – what’s new? [laughs] He always has a new book out, and I only say that in the best way because they’re great books. This new book is very interesting: How Antigravity Built the Pyramids.

Nick, in case you’ve not been paying attention, is the author of more than 70 books. He’s been on may television shows, including Travel Channel’s In Search of Monsters, History Channel’s Unexplained, Ancient Aliens, and Monster Quest, Sci-Fi Channel’s Proof Positive, and National Geographic Channel’s Paranatural. He is a regular guest on Coast to Coast AM. He lives in Arlington, Texas, and you should check out his blog, World of Whatever, at nickredfernfortean.blogspot.com.

Nick Redfern, welcome back to the show.

NICK REDFERN: Hey, Jim, how’s it going?

JIM HAROLD: It is going well, and I’m so glad to have you with us. Towards the end of the show we’ll tell people – we’re both going to be on a cruise coming up next year, and I’ve got to tell everybody about that. I’m looking forward to seeing you again and having a lot of fun on that.

But I’m really looking forward to talking about this book, How Antigravity Built the Pyramids: The Mysterious Technology of Ancient Superstructures. Why did you decide to turn your attention to this? You’ve covered everything Fortean, and I know you’ve talked about things like ancient astronauts and those types of things; why this book now? Why this particular topic? Why did it hit for you now?

NICK REDFERN: Well, I think primarily, Jim, over the years – I’ve always had a fascination for mysteries, and particularly ancient mysteries. That’s kept me intrigued and so on. Over the last few years, I’ve heard about this phenomenon of acoustic levitation, as it’s known. When I started to look into it, I delved more and more, and I really did feel – and I still do feel – that this is the answer to how and why so many of these gigantic stones all across the world – I honestly do believe that this is the way in which it was achieved.

The problem is that we, the human race, right now, we’ve either lost the secret, or it’s been hidden, or possibly a combination of the two. And I think that is the answer. I can demonstrate for you exactly what acoustic levitation actually is and how it – 

JIM HAROLD: Please do.

NICK REDFERN: The book itself looks at how huge, massive blocks of rock and stone could’ve been created, and particularly, even more incredible, that it could be moved for huge distances on the ground as well. Things that we simply cannot do. I thought, well, let’s have a go and dig into the old legends and the stories, and I felt that I really was hitting onto this.

Now, although there’s a lot of science surrounding it, there’s a really nice, good, far more simple way to explain it from two friends of mine, Marie D. Jones and Larry Flaxman. Larry and Marie describe it as “two opposing sound frequencies with interfering soundwaves, thus creating a resonant zone that allows the levitation to occur.”

In other words, we’ve got sound, which obviously you cannot see, but it’s two opposing sound acoustic levitation pushing against each other. Kind of like if you’ve got two magnets and you try to push them against each other and you can’t do it.

JIM HAROLD: Sure, they repel.

NICK REDFERN: Yes, it repels. That is the closest way, I think, that is causing this to now be successful. Today – I must stress this – we have not managed to elevate a rock that’s 15 tons and 45 feet in the sky. We have not done that. But we are now beginning to do it on smaller things, like a dime, but solid, being allowed to be raised into the sky by using acoustic levitation.

The big question, of course, is how was somebody or an entire civilization able to do this thousands of years ago, but we today, as I said earlier, cannot do it? We don’t know how to do it, but we are now at least starting.

JIM HAROLD: When you’re talking about this, the title, How Antigravity Built the Pyramids – but you’re not just, in the book, talking about the pyramids. You’re talking about a lot of ancient, huge structures, aren’t you?

NICK REDFERN: Oh yeah. If you look at some of the ancient stones, they’re not just “big” or “quite large.” [laughs] They’re nothing like that. We’re talking about gigantic stones weighing multiple tons, and I’m not exaggerating when I say that. You can go through any part of the world, really, and take a look at how this has developed. When you look into it, you think, “Wow, how did I miss this?” The more I’ve been looking, the more and more that I’ve been able to say that we really are getting close.

Now, what is interesting is that when we look into it more and more, we find that other people have looked into it in the past, but were able to get so far but weren’t – at least totally not, anyway. I’ll just give you a quote from a ufologist from the 1950s, ’60s, and ’70s named Bruce Cathie who was a pilot.

He wrote in one of his books: “It is inconceivable that the thousands of stone blocks, each weighing many tons, that were used in the construction of the Great Pyramid were dragged hundreds of miles by slaves, then fitted together with such precision that a visiting card cannot be pushed between them. These massive blocks were moved by the utilization of the power grid.” Bruce Cathie basically paralleled the acoustic levitation with the power grid. He basically just used a different term. So that’s a fascinating situation.

One of the perfect examples that I talk about in the book relates to Stonehenge. Just about everybody knows what Stonehenge looks like, and although it’s big, it’s not gigantic. It’s not like the height of the pyramids. But they are very tall. They’re like 30-35 feet high. That’s not gigantic, but what’s important is not so much that issue of the height; it’s actually where they came from.

A lot of people don’t know this, but it’s important to note that Stonehenge itself is in the English county of Wiltshire, but what a lot of people don’t know is that most of the stones did not come from Wiltshire. They actually came from a part of Wales called the Preseli Mountains. The distance from where the stones were formed to where Stonehenge itself actually is, is 241 miles. And that 241-mile distance is on mountains. We’re not talking about nice flat stonework, roads, things like that. It’s the exact opposite.

So the big question is – yes, we’ve got the giant stones to make Stonehenge, but also, we’ve got to find the answer as to how and why, round about 10,000 years ago, we were able to move stones 241 miles when there’s actually nothing to allow it to do it. We just do not know how it could be achieved.

JIM HAROLD: I want to throw this out here, because I could hear some people saying this. I’ve heard these kinds of critiques of when you talk about the ancients – people say things like ancient astronauts, ancient aliens, or some kind of lost ability. Some people think that it’s kind of a magical thing, and some people will say this, and I want to get your reaction on it – might as well get it out there – some people will say when we resort to this magical thinking, we are downplaying the ingenuity of these ancient peoples, and we’re, for lack of a better word, dissing them. Have you heard that? And if so, what is your reaction to it?

NICK REDFERN: Yeah, I do have a thought on this angle. A lot of people have said we don’t give them the ability that we should, we’re sort of playing them down, as if they’re just a bunch of cavemen, grunting or whatever. I don’t think it was like that at all. If you look at photographs, drawings, paintings, you see pictures of so-called “cavemen.” One’s got a club in his hand and pulling his wife by the hair. It’s like that terrible – a picture that doesn’t have any benefit to the original history and the story.

My view is that – what I talk about in the book is there are two possibilities. One could be the scenario that all of this was done by extraterrestrials. Or, as I actually focus on significantly more, is the possibility that at some point in our history, a long, long time ago – we could be talking maybe even 10,000 years ago – there could’ve been an ancient human civilization, and they either ran out, or we don’t really know what happened to them.

But I have a strong feeling that at some point, there was an ancient human civilization, and they did lose that civilization, everything collapsed, and all we have are just a few legends here and there. I think that could be the answer that we don’t give them the ability, if you like, that we really should.

JIM HAROLD: What I was going to say is, if this is true, if this is accurate, and this acoustic levitation was the methodology that was used to build things like Stonehenge and the pyramids, ostensibly it would seem to me that you’re giving the ancients a lot of credit, and you’re saying that in some ways, they could’ve actually been smarter than us.

NICK REDFERN: Yeah, and there is some distinct evidence, or other evidence as well. In all of these places around the world, in South America, Middle America, Central America, and even in the UK, all of them have legends where the people who were building these gigantic structures were doing it either by knocking on something with a rock on the side of one of the big stones, and the stones would take to the sky, and then there are other legends – in South America, there was this legend of how these strange, small people would be able to whistle the stones into the sky.

Now, as I call attention to in the book, I don’t officially really believe that stones were whistled into the sky, any more than I believe that just hitting one of the pyramid stones is going to take it into the sky. That’s not going to work. But if you think about it, you’ve got whistles and you’ve got noises, things like this, and in other words we’re talking about sound. We’ve got this situation were in all of these legends – and the same with Stonehenge. Every so often, to move the stones when the people from Stonehenge were going to Wiltshire, England, they were singing and dancing, and the stones would rise up.

Again, I don’t take that literally, but all of these different types of moving the stones all around the world, it all comes down to sound one way or the other. Of course, over time, the legends, if you like, have been distorted, but it’s all about sound.

JIM HAROLD: And if you look at things like infrasound – haven’t modern-day governments taken interest in different applications of sound and so forth?

NICK REDFERN: Oh yeah. Things like infrasound and ultrasound. They can at times be quite dangerous. They can affect your mind and put you into almost a drunken state, or make you see things and put people into like a hypnosis state. Over the last few years, a number of governments and U.S. military agencies have been working to try to see how sound could be used as weapons, literally by blasting people with ultrasound technology which really will make you vomit, your head start spinning around.

Also, we know from the remains from Stonehenge, there’s significant data that suggests that sound was used in the ceremonies of the people way back then, and they would use sound as a means to make their rituals at Stonehenge even more fascinating, and allow the mind to expand further and further and further.

JIM HAROLD: We’re talking with Nick Redfern about his recent book, How Antigravity Built the Pyramids, and we’ll be back right after this.

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If you love the Paranormal Podcast, be sure to check out Jim Harold’s Campfire, where ordinary people share their extraordinary stories of ghosts, UFOs, cryptids, and terrifying encounters. Find it for free wherever you listen to this podcast. Tune in to Jim Harold’s Campfire today. Now, we return to the Paranormal Podcast.

JIM HAROLD: We are indeed back on the Paranormal Podcast. Our guest is Nick Redfern, and we’re talking about his new book, How Antigravity Built the Pyramids.

One of the things that fascinates me when you look at ancient societies, and across the world that are very geographically disparate and separated, you’ll have things like the flood “myth,” which there’s so many flood myths that I don’t think it’s a myth. [laughs] So I guess my point is in regard to this idea of acoustic levitation, can you talk about some of the different stories and how they jibe with stories from other civilizations, maybe separated by thousands of years and thousands of miles?

NICK REDFERN: Yeah, that’s one of the most important things, actually, because if we’ve got people down in South America, Central America, and they, in their legends, are talking about rituals using acoustics, and somebody else is doing something extremely similar in the UK, and then you’ve got places in Central Mexico, very similar stories there – if you think about it, there’s no way that people from the other side of the world simply would not be able to do the exact same thing – namely, use acoustic levitation in South America and you’ve got acoustic levitation here and there.

Again, to me at least, it makes me conclude that they had some connection with each other. And again, how would it cause all this to go away? We don’t really have the answer to that, unfortunately. But yeah, you’re talking about things that are somebody doing something one side of the world, somebody doing something else, one of them might be raising something in a legend which was done by whistling little creatures, and the other was done by dancing and singing, but all around the world, it all comes to the fact that there seems to have been connections all around the world.

JIM HAROLD: What is the best evidence for levitation on a minor level being able to be replicated today? You talked about something the size of a dime being able to be levitated into the skies. Can you talk about that? Whether you’re talking about scientific experiments or maybe more Indigenous people who have done different things that have been observed or spoken of in more recent history. What are we talking about, on a small level, with levitation in the current era?

NICK REDFERN: That’s a good point. There’s a number of places which really do take off. The one for me, at least, is Baalbek in modern-day Lebanon, north of Beirut in the Beqaa Valley. There are a number of large, gigantic stones, as I said, deep in the heart of Lebanon. By all of the expeditions and then the investigations, most of them were probably built roughly round about 9,000 B.C. So we’re talking about 11,000 years ago.

What’s particularly intriguing about these stones – we’ve been able to extract out of the ground four so far. One of them – and this is no exaggeration – the heaviest runs in at 1,650 tons.


NICK REDFERN: Yeah. The other three are also in the thousands as well. There really is no way to figure out how we could move not just – I mean, if you’ve got the block anyway, put it into shape, sculpting it, that takes enough. But 11,000 years ago, to sculpt these stones, 1,650 tons, and then – forget about that as well, what about moving them when they weigh 1,650 tons? I won’t say it’s impossible, because clearly it’s been done. It has been done.

But I would say the mainstream archeologists will literally go back down the old path – rollers and things like that. And I just don’t buy it.

JIM HAROLD: Do you think it’s partially kind of – I don’t know if hubris is the right word, but a belief of like “It’s impossible that these ancients know something that we don’t know”?

NICK REDFERN: Yes. There’s a denial. Within the scientific communities, architectural and so on, yes, I think there’s a denial of allowing these kinds of things to get through because nobody really has an answer.

Now, some people have said, “What if they just built them? Couldn’t they have just left them there?” They could’ve done that. They could’ve built these gigantic 1,400-ton stones, but the whole point was to build them because they were building new buildings. Again, I don’t look from the perspective they just built and built on top of another part and another part, and it would just be very heavy. It doesn’t come down to that.

It comes down to that they were – the only real answer you can come forward with is that, yes, they moved these stones, and no, we don’t know how to do it. But – 

JIM HAROLD: Now – go ahead, finish your thought.

NICK REDFERN: One of the more intriguing stories revolves around a guy named Edward Leedskalnin. I don’t know if you know him.


NICK REDFERN: He was a very fascinating, intriguing guy – someone who was also filled with mysteries and secrets, and he built the famous Coral Castle, which sits in Florida. What’s particularly intriguing about Edward was that he was able to develop, build, and raise massive stones and multi-ton stones all on his own. And when I say on his own, that was how he did it. Occasionally he would share rumors and stories about how this might’ve happened, and he would talk about it.

I’ll just read to you one of Ed’s statements. He said, “I have discovered the secrets of the pyramids and have found out how the Egyptians and the ancient builders in Peru, Yucatan, and Asia, with only primitive tools, raised and set in place blocks of stone weighing many tons.” Somehow, Ed found something that we have not.

I often have this feeling that in this weird fashion, it’s right in front of us, but we just don’t know. It’s kind of like the trees and the woods and whatever.

JIM HAROLD: Right, you can’t see the forest for the trees. The thing is, if I’m correct, he was a relatively small-built man, wasn’t he?


JIM HAROLD: It wasn’t like he was lifting stones. [laughs] Even a big man or woman couldn’t lift huge stones. But still, he was a small guy, if I remember what I heard correctly.

NICK REDFERN: Yeah. There’s another side to Ed’s story and his life as well. He was going to get married to Agnes, and it all went wrong and collapsed for him. Somebody who was a very deep writer and reader is Billy Idol, the rock star, and he followed Ed’s story and became fascinated by it, and that’s why he decided to write a song.

So the story itself of Ed is filled with mystery and secrecy and ancient mysteries, and it draws us right to the present day through music, in an ironic way.

JIM HAROLD: Yeah, sound.


JIM HAROLD: That’s really interesting because it’s like, well, he did it, so if he didn’t do it through these secrets and if he didn’t do it through sound, explain to us how he did it. I don’t think anyone has sufficiently done that, how he built Coral Castle.

In fact, it’s so funny that you mention that because that’s something I’ve long wanted to dedicate a whole show to, but I can’t find a ton of material out there on it. I don’t know, it seems to be a little bit lost to the ages here, but I think it’s absolutely fantastic, and such a cool thing that we have something like that in America that we could go see, and this one man built it. And maybe, just maybe, he did know those secrets.

Coral Castle, by the way, is part of the National Register of Historic Places in the United States, so check it out if you’re down in Florida.

Turning our attention from the past to the future, if we could reharness this ability, can you talk a little bit about what it could do? Obviously, if it could build the pyramids, there’s so much it could do for us as humanity. Talk to us about what we could do with this acoustic levitation if we could regain the secret.

NICK REDFERN: That’s a good thing. We’re actually now starting better and better to realize that we’re starting to do this, and we’re doing it here, and the technology is becoming more and more significant.

For example, in 2017, Science Daily – and I’ll make an exact quote: “Levitation techniques are no longer confined to the laboratory thanks to University of Bristol engineers who have developed an easier way for suspending matter in the air by developing a 3D printer acoustic levitator.” So there’s no doubt – and this is just one example of probably about 60 or 70 examples that I’ve mentioned in the book which are now talking about this being able to be done right now.

It is still in a slow and a very small situation, but we are getting there, and other companies are now realizing the potentials. I mean, if you could levitate something like an airliner with no engine, or if you’re talking about, for example, a gigantic warship wouldn’t need engines or anything like that – we could raise out of the oceans 500 feet into the sky. If you put all that together, we are seeing this picture coming together. I think it may be a slow situation, but we are really – I think there’s a possibility we could go from going horizontal to vertical.

JIM HAROLD: It’s a fascinating idea, and I love the idea of “let’s think outside the box because our standard explanations have not sufficiently explained it, so let’s cast our net a little bit wider and open our minds.” I have all the respect in the world for scientists, and they’ve done so many great things. We wouldn’t be able to do the things that we do with, for example, podcasts without scientists, so God bless the scientists.

But I think sometimes history over the years has shown that many times, some scientists, some mainstream scientists, can be resistant to something because, basically, “It’s not true because it can’t be true or because it doesn’t fit in our range of explanations,” and then later on it proves to be “Oh, it was that all along.” So I don’t want to pooh-pooh scientists too much, but certainly I think sometimes they just have to get out of their own way and cast that net a little bit wider.

NICK REDFERN: Yeah. I think to some degree – some people are saying, “Yeah, this is interesting, but…” and some people are saying, “Do you think it could really be done?” Well, it’s in front of us. Like I said earlier, that’s sort of the forest for the trees and so on. Like with Ed, I think that he found something, but I also think he found something that turned out to be so, so simple. And it worked, and it was something that does not really provide us the answers right now because we just haven’t got it yet.

When things do change – can you imagine never needing gas again? No more oil, nothing like that at all. In one sense – I’ve thought about this – it might actually cause problems for the economies. Imagine if every gas company in the world was shut down because it wasn’t needed anymore.

JIM HAROLD: It’s one of those things that does make you think and it does bend the mind, and that’s what we try to do here, Nick. Now, this book, How Antigravity Built the Pyramids: The Mysterious Technology of Ancient Superstructures, is basically available everywhere fine books are sold – Amazon and all the bookstores and pretty much everywhere, correct?

NICK REDFERN: Yes, it’s floating in all bookstores right now. [laughs]

JIM HAROLD: Excellent. That is excellent. I highly recommend it. Really, Nick is a craftsman. He isa  great author, he has great books, and if you’re interested in any kind of anomalous or Fortean thing out there, he’s probably written a book on it. You should check it out, and most recently, you should check out How Antigravity Built the Pyramids: The Mysterious Technology of Ancient Superstructures.

Nick, one more thing I want to mention, other than this very cool book: you and I are going to be amongst those going on the Ancient Mysteries Cruise VI: New York to Bermuda, and that will be March 28th to April 2nd, 2023. I know there’ll be you, there’ll be Nick Pope, Peter Robbins, Micah Hanks, myself, and I’m really looking forward to it. I look forward to seeing you then.

NICK REDFERN: Yeah, me too. I always like doing those cruises because you get a lot of information, but also, you make new friends as well and that’s always good.

JIM HAROLD: That’s the thing I love about it. It’s not like a conference, quite. You’re all at sea together, so you get to rotate through dinner and get to know each other. It’s really just a nice thing.

And the other thing I’ll mention, and the website where you can get more information and sign up, hopefully – it’s on a brand new ship. It’s brand new. Norwegian Prima. My wife loves cruises, so she showed me some of the YouTube videos, and my jaw dropped. It’s like, oh okay, I see, they’re not kidding. This is really awesome. [laughs] So check out some of those YouTube videos, because they’re very cool. And everybody, check out the cruise: ancientaliencruise.com. I hope you get to join us.

Nick, thank you again for joining us today to talk about How Antigravity Built the Pyramids: The Mysterious Technology of Ancient Superstructures. We’ll have it linked at the website, and certainly everybody check it out on Amazon and all the other places. As always, it’s a pleasure, and thanks for being on the show today, Nick.

NICK REDFERN: Thanks a lot, Jim. Thank you.

JIM HAROLD: We always want to make you think on this show, and certainly I think today’s interview did that – agree, disagree, or if you’re just not sure. Thank you for joining us today. Thanks to Nick Redfern for joining us. He always has such interesting material to discuss. Check out all his books.

And if you like what we do here, I do have a favor to ask. It is the spooky season, and people love this kind of content this time of the year, so when you’re listening in a safe place – not driving, but when you’re listening in a safe place – hit “Share” on your podcast app and send someone a link to the episode you’re listening to. That’s an easy way to get people into the shows, and most of the podcast apps will have that little “Share” button, so do that.

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Thanks so much. We’ll talk to you next time. Have a great week, and stay spooky. Bye-bye, everybody.

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