Forbidden Knowledge – Paranormal Podcast 723

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Legendary UFOlogist Kathleen Marden joins us to talk about the intersection of UFO and Paranormal Phenomena. She discusses her own UFO and paranormal experiences and how the two may be intertwined.

You can find her latest book at Amazon: FORBIDDEN KNOWLEDGE: A Personal Journey from Alien Abduction to Spiritual Transformation


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Please note we do not guarantee 100% transcript accuracy. The below reflects a best effort. Thank you for your understanding.

Jim Harold 0:00
One of the most renowned UFO researchers and authors in history joins us next, Kathleen Marden on the Paranormal Podcast.

Paranormal Podcast Announcer 0:22
This is the Paranormal Podcast with Jim Harold.

Jim Harold 0:26
Welcome to the Paranormal Podcast. I am Jim Harold and so glad to be with you today. And today we have with us Kathleen Marden. And she has been on the shows many times and she is an absolutely fascinating guest and she has a new book out. And we’re so glad to speak to her about it. It’s called Forbidden Knowledge: A personal journey from alien abduction to spiritual transformation. And Kathleen has a great background indeed, she is a researcher, author, on camera expert, conference presenter, experiencer, advocate, Gnosis practitioner, and support group facilitator. She is known as one of the leading UFO Contact researchers of our time, and since 1990, she has researched the perplexing nature of UFOs and the non human entities associated with highly advanced aerial vehicles via her own groundbreaking research, investigation, and experimentation. And we’re so glad to have her with us. And we appreciate it. Kathleen Marden, so glad to talk to you about the new book, Forbidden kKnowledge.

Kathleen Marden 1:33
Oh, thank you for having me back. Great to see you again.

Jim Harold 1:36
Good to see you. So, you know, I know many people who are steeped in the UFO literature will be familiar with your name and know your background. But maybe for those who, you know, maybe be–might be new, we’ve got so many new people coming into this. They may not know of you and know really your deep personal connection to this. Could you talk about that a little bit?

Kathleen Marden 2:00
I would be happy to. When I was 13 years old, my aunt and uncle Betty and Barney Hill had a close encounter in New Hampshire’s White Mountains and a missing time event. There was physical evidence, and later they found out that they had been abducted by aliens. It was the first scientifically investigated UFO abduction case in the United States. It occurred on September 19, 1961. So this was the beginning of my interest in this topic. I went to college, I had a career, I started out in psychiatric social work, then education, I was an education services coordinator. But in 1990, I left my field to begin my own research and writing. It was something that I had a passion for and always had during my life. The only reason that I didn’t complete that in college was that my Aunt Betty Hill told me to do something practical like being a social worker. But finally, I am following my passion. I have been deep into the trenches of UFO investigation, research, the research and investigation of ET contact. And I have carried that another step further. And this new book is all about that, and about my personal experiences that I thought I would never reveal to the public. I thought I would take it to my grave. But more recently, I have been convinced that I should talk of my personal story, and also communication with non humans.

Jim Harold 3:57
So again, that connection to really one of the seminal cases, Betty and Barney Hill, the Betty and Barney Hill case. And I just want to ask you one question about that. Because, again, especially now with UFOs being in the news and so forth, really people are, I think maybe re-examining that case again, and even coming more to the fore. Other than her being your aunt, why did you believe Betty Hill and Barney Hill? Why did you believe them?

Kathleen Marden 4:32
I did an extensive investigation of their case. I had my original memories of going to their home within a couple of days of the time they had this event, of examining the physical evidence, the magnetic field around shiny spots on the trunk of their vehicle. Betty’s torn dress, Barney’s deeply scraped shoes, the watches that stopped and never ran again. I was a witness to the unfolding of the aftermath of this event that led up to hypnosis with renowned psychiatrist Dr. Benjamin Simon, after my uncle was hospitalized with bleeding ulcers. He had a really horrible time because he had conscious recall all long of these non human entities that he saw through binoculars, and who he thought wanted to capture him. And that’s exactly what the hypnosis revealed. Now, I did this extensive investigation. Unfortunately, my uncle died in 1969. But my aunt lived until 2004. She passed when she was 85 years old. This gave me really 14 years’ time to go along that route time and time again with her to record what she stated they did at every step along that route and what they saw. I have the entire archival collection, and I set up an archive at the University of New Hampshire as well. I spoke with the original investigators who were still alive, or were in the 1990s. I was a witness and was introduced to many of these investigators myself such as Walter Webb from–an astronomer from the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena, to Jacques Valée.

Jim Harold 6:42
Of course.

Kathleen Marden 6:43
I think everyone knows of Dr. Jacques Valée. Of meeting Dr. Allen Hynek, during his investigation. Of meeting John Fuller, who was the author of the first book after there was a violation of confidentiality that carried that is in Barney’s experience to the public. And they decided to let a book be written about what occurred to them. I encouraged scientists to evaluate the evidence, I never gave up on that. And as we have progressed, technologically, we have been able to look further into the evidence and my 60th anniversary edition of Captured: The Betty and Barney Hill UFO experience is available. You can purchase it at any bookstore, online at Amazon or Barnes and Noble or other book–media sites. And also on my own website, autographed copies at

Jim Harold 7:52
And I hope people do that. And I–there’s one thing that I want to bring up and then I want to kind of pivot to your story. But one thing that you mentioned in there that a lot of people don’t realize is that the Hills did not want to go public with this initially Correct?

Kathleen Marden 8:09
That is correct. They never intended to go public. My aunt was a social worker for the state of New Hampshire. Barney worked for the US Post Office. They were also active in the civil rights movement. She was white, he was black. And, in fact in 1964, because of their political activities in the state of New Hampshire, for the benefit of our New Hampshire residents, they were invited to Lyndon Johnson’s inauguration. I went along with them. I was also invited. Barney was appointed to the US Commission on Civil Rights as a State Advisory Board member that same year. He received an award from the Archdiocese of Manchester, New Hampshire for setting up a literacy program for illiterate people in the state of New Hampshire who wanted to vote. In those days, you had to take a literacy test. And he also received an award from Sargent Shriver from the federal poverty program for setting up the Rockingham County community action program with funding through the Office of Economic Opportunity. And of course, my Aunt Betty was at his side during all of this work.

Jim Harold 9:30
Yeah, I–again, I mean, these would be the kind of people you would be most likely to believe in, the most credible based on their background and all of their various activities. So impressive indeed. Now, let’s talk about your story with forbidden knowledge. Why did you think now was the time to come forward with these things–and we’ll talk about what some of them are–that you had kind of keep–kept hidden for all these years?

Kathleen Marden 10:02
There were a couple of reasons. One is in order to help others, to–to assist people who have had these experiences as well, but who never wanted to come forward. I thought I would take this to my grave. The other reason for it is that the federal government has now admitted that UFOs are real. They call them UAVs now. And that they, just as we knew back in 1947, 1948, they can out fly and out maneuver anything on this planet. They have properties where they can travel underwater, in our air and in space. They seem to have the ability to fade out of existence and then fade back in. They–they have properties far beyond anything that we have here on Earth, the scientists who were studying this have discovered. And there is also a relationship between this and paranormal phenomena. I’ve been aware of this for a number of years, through my investigations and research. And the three studies that I’ve worked on on experiencers–about 5000 experiencers at this point. Two of those studies were with PhD academics. And I’m very proud of the work that we did in order to gain a better understanding of the commonalities that experiencers share. And one of those is this paranormal activity. Light orbs that appear to have intelligence, conscious forms, not just outside, but in the homes of experiencers. This sensation that something unseen is walking on the bed. They can feel it, they can sense it. I’ve had that experience as well, both with orbs and the sensation that something unseen is walking on the bed. And this hitchhiker effect that the government officials are now talking about where they seem to follow those that they have come in contact with and their families and their friends. And this is possibly what led to my own contact. And my mother’s as well. I can’t say that for certain because we know that it is intergenerational in about 60% of the cases.

Jim Harold 12:56
Now, how far back does your contact go, or your experiences go in relation to the Hill experience? Was it right after? Was it years after? How far back are we talking?

Kathleen Marden 13:10
When I was 17 years old, my Aunt Betty was working on an experiment with a team of scientists. They worked at IBM. And they were attempting to call in craft. They called it psychophysics experiments then, we now call it CE5 experiments. But they gave her a script to read every night, giving the location where they wanted this craft to appear. And they thought that she could possibly pass telepathic messages to those entities that she had this unwanted relationship with. Really being taken, I–I now wonder if it was the first time that she was taken. But she was doing this experiment and one thing that she asked for was for the craft to land on my grandparents farm in Kingston, New Hampshire. Well, one night a craft did come in for–it appeared to come in for a landing. My grandmother saw it, and we had a neighbor who was a commercial pilot returning home from work at night. And he saw it as well. And what we never said is that my mother and I both remembered being taken to craft that night. It was something that I held inside for many years. It was extraordinarily difficult for a girl of 17 to absorb this. In fact, I attempted to explain it away is that, “oh my mother had–had surgeons come into the house in the middle of the night so that she didn’t want me to be frightened. And I must have needed some kind of surgery.” And you know, so that was just my rationalization. But Dr. James Harder, who was a professor at University of California, in Berkeley, was also a–the Chief Investigator of all of this for the Aerial Phenomena Research Organization. And he came out to New Hampshire, and he worked with my mother, myself. He–he hypnotized my aunt again, as well, and other members of the family I believe, but I do not have knowledge of who that was. It was kind of a big family secret, even from me at the time, so I was–as far as I know, I have conscious recall dating back to the time I was 17. And recall of other experiences periodically throughout my life.

Jim Harold 16:07
We’ll be back with Kathleen Marden right after this.

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Paranormal Podcast Announcer 2 19:05
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Jim Harold 19:19
We are back on the Paranormal Podcast. Our guest today is Kathleen Marden and we’re talking about the UFO phenomena and paranormal phenomena. We’ll get back to that in just a moment. Want to mention, since the announcer there just talked about our email list, you’re gonna want to get on it. Specifically not only for the camp story–campfire story of the week and all the other things we do. But we’re doing a book giveaway now. Every week during the spring of 2022, we’ll be giving two lucky winners a book from our vast library of Spooky Studio books that we’ve received over the years. So make sure you’re signed up. Now unfortunately, we have to make this US only just because of the realities of international shipping. Still, if you’re international the–I think the email newsletter is great. But unfortunately, we can’t extend the book giveaway to international listeners. But if you want all the details, go to That’s And there we’ll have a spot where you can read all the rules and sign up for our email newsletter if you have not done so. That is And I hope you’ll check it out. And now we are back with Kathleen Marden. Now based on your experiences, do you see the others, as Whitley Strieber calls them, do you think that they are space aliens? ETs? Or do you think that there’s a possibility that there’s something that we haven’t quite figured out yet?

Kathleen Marden 21:01
That is a difficult question. I always thought of them as astronauts coming from another planet. That’s what my aunt told me to think of them as, as she tried to comfort me and tell me I shouldn’t be frightened. But as we learn more, they have interdimensional characteristics, and I’m aware that these interdimensional entities have communicated with other humans, they claim to be extra terrestrials. And in my book, you will read about an experiment that the federal government took part in, and the evidence for that, and also an experiment that I ended up taking part in as the result of my feeling of encouragement from officials from the government. So it has been an extensive experiment in–for me, in order to gain understanding, to learn what I could. These entities claim to come from the fifth and sixth dimensions. When we ask if they are space aliens, or if they are simply interdimensional beings, their reply is, “extra terrestrial to you, but not to ourselves.” So it makes me wonder, I don’t know. It’s a mystery.

Jim Harold 22:38
Do you think that there’s a trickster element to the UFO phenomenon?

Kathleen Marden 22:46
You know, that’s another difficult question, because we know there is a trick–trickster phenomena related to the paranormal. And there is one entity in this group that we communicated with who has a sense of humor. He, for example, I worked with a man named Kevin Briggs, he was the person who communicated with these alleged nonhumans. And his wife Sandy, kept talking about needing to rearrange her closet, to take her shoes out and rearrange them. But this allegedly gray entity that I saw in my mind’s eye, that I learned to communicate with telepathically, whose presence I can feel as a strong tingling sensation in my body, rearranged Sandy’s closet for her. He said that he did it at an atomic level, that he wasn’t there actually picking up the shoes and putting them into place. So it’s a mystery. I can’t say that I have all the answers, but I certainly acquired some very interesting evidence and information. And having a scientific background, my colleague and I, Denise Stoner, who have worked–has worked with me for many, many years now, came with all of her scientific equipment that she has used as part of the UFO Network as a starting member, a chief investigator and investigator with the Robert Bigelow foundation as well. She’s a top notch investigator. She brought a laser thermometer. We were able to measure an increase in room temperature by more than five degrees in the area where these fifth and sixth dimensionals were standing, we also measured about an eight and a half degree increase in temperature in the area where the ninth dimensionals were standing. So it’s–I find this information fascinating the evidence as well. They wanted to show us evidence that they were real, that this was not a figment of Kevin’s imagination, or that he was simply a trickster himself, pulling a scam on us. We determined that he was not. One of my then acquaintances, who became a member of our research team is Dr. Melanie Barton-Bragg, and she is a psychotherapist, and she’s also a minister, she brought that spiritual part to the group, and always said a prayer of protection before we began. And I have to say, I learned a great deal. And this comes into the idea of consciousness studies and–and the exploration of consciousness because I developed the ability to communicate with at least one of these entities. And he came to me one morning–it was prearranged–at five o’clock AM, I sat out on my deck overlooking the lake that I live on. I was expecting to see a craft. I was disappointed. I didn’t see the craft. But I–I saw a whirling circle of turbulent water on the lake. It was about 40 feet in diameter. And I wondered, is this a craft rising up out of the water? Is this a cloaked craft, or a craft that’s still in another dimension, but it is affecting the water? And so I got in touch with Kevin because the–the gray entity that was with me, and I did not communicate about that I thought about it after. Kevin asked, and he said that this gray–thought that it was the product of his own energy, that he has a great deal of energy. And when he comes into our environment, this occurs. And I have to tell you that I was calling him in a couple months ago. And one of my windows broke during this process, unfortunately, an $800 window–

Jim Harold 28:04
Oh my.

Kathleen Marden 28:04
–and broke only on the inside pane, not the outside. And I’m–I’m still asking him to do to my window what he did to Sandy’s shoes, to rearrange it (laughs).

Jim Harold 28:21
(Laughs) At the atomic level, yes. Now, has–or have ghosts been a part of the picture for you, in addition to the contact with these beings, have you seen or experienced ghosts in any way?

Kathleen Marden 28:39
I can’t say they are ghosts. I have experienced, after the death of my grandmother, I would lie on my bed to read before I fell asleep at night. And the light next to my bed would switch off. And actually I had asked my grandmother who hadn’t seen my home but always wanted to, she was in a nursing home. I asked her to come after she left her body. And I–then I thought well, you know, maybe this is just a problem with the lamp. So I had my husband put in–in all of the new equipment that goes into a lamp, a new light bulb, and it continued to happen. And then I realized that it was my grandmother and I said, “oh I’m so happy that you came to see me Nana. I’m trying to read now. Will you please leave the light on?” And it never happened again.

Jim Harold 29:48
(Laughs) Now, part of the reason–I mean you’re award winning, you’ve won a Lifetime Achievement Award for your efforts in UFO research. You’ve won numerous awards for being one of the finest UFO researchers out there. But by coming forward with this information in your own personal experiences, did you or do you have any concern that maybe some people might look at that askance and that somehow it can threaten to undermine your credibility as a researcher?

Kathleen Marden 30:22
Absolutely. I know that those who are interested in and devoted to material science are going to think that I have become woowoo. And I used to think that about others. I remember when Dr. James Harder, wrote to me, many, many years ago, telling me that he was communicating with these nonhumans. I thought, “This man has lost it. I don’t think I want to be associated with him,” because I was a scientific investigator at that time. And then in 2011, I made the determination that it was scientifically dishonest to reject this other side of the picture that was definitely a part of UFO contact phenomenon and UFO phenomena in general. And the government has–has of course, recently informed us that it is part and parcel to–it makes it more complicated, because then you bring in the other parts of the–of the paranormal, such as ghosts, such as negative entities, positive entities, you bring in religion, it’s–so it makes it more difficult. But I felt that I couldn’t remain stuck in the cement of material knowledge, of being a nuts and bolts investigator, knowing that there–that this is far more complicated. I knew that if I waited for the mainstream scientific community to acknowledge this truth, that I would wait forever because they’ve had 70 years to acknowledge this and they have not.

Jim Harold 32:32
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Paranormal Podcast Announcer 35:39
If you love the Paranormal Podcast, be sure to check out Jim Harold’s Campfire, where ordinary people share their extraordinary stories of ghosts, UFOs, cryptids, and terrifying encounters. Find it for free wherever you listen to this podcast. Tune into Jim Harold’s Campfire today. Now we return to the Paranormal Podcast.

Jim Harold 35:58
Do you think something or someone wants it to be complicated? In other words, whatever we’re contacting, whatever is in contact with us, kind of back a little bit to that trickster idea. Do they want to make it like a hall of mirrors? Do they want to make it confusing? Do they they want to make it obtuse? What do you think?

Kathleen Marden 36:24
I think that according to what they have communicated with us, they want us to gain an understanding of dimensions, of consciousness, of their reasons for being here. And they are not going to show themselves to our detriment. They are willing to educate all of us. They say that they’ve been here for a very long time to assist in our development. And they’ve come back periodically throughout human history. They, as in so many other cases, have imparted the knowledge that they are extraordinarily concerned about our use of nuclear weapons, and about our environment and an impact on a possible environmental collapse. They told this to the Canadian government, to officials from the American government way back in 1954. It wasn’t acknowledged then. This information was given to me in a thick packet of files by the granddaughter of a Navy Rear Admiral who took part in this investigation. And I feel a duty to humanity to reveal this very important information. And this is why I risk my reputation, my career. Because I think that it is–it is extraordinarily important for our survival.

Jim Harold 38:17
So essentially, we have, as a human race, been in contact with these others. And the ones we’ve been in contact seem to be acting and thinking in our best interest. Correct?

Kathleen Marden 38:33
Most of them are. As–if you read about Skinwalker Ranch, and in Utah, and I have investigated another case that’s very much like that in East Texas. You have highly positive entities, you have the middle road, and you have highly negative entities that come into the picture as well. So you have the–the positive, the negative, and, you know, I think somewhere in between all of that are those who are attempting to simply be objective and helpful.

Jim Harold 39:15
What do you make of the government currently coming out saying, “we don’t know what’s going on in the skies”? This recent rash of sightings and videos, the tic tac video so forth and so on? What do you make of it?

Kathleen Marden 39:35
I’m extraordinarily pleased that they are doing this investigation and releasing the results of their study to us. It’s–I’ve known about this for a number of years, 11 years now–not about their work, but about these phenomena. And I’m delighted to see that our government is taking this seriously. I will certainly not ridicule them in any way. And I–all I can say is, if they would like any information from me on all of the studies that I have done, they can come to me at any time, and I’ll be willing to share my information with them.

Jim Harold 40:26
Now, many times people are curious about the idea of hybrids. I know you talk about hybrids in your book. Are hybrids real? And are they walking amongst us?

Kathleen Marden 40:40
Many researchers believe that hybrids are real. From my knowledge, and my investigations, and research studies. I–I know that there is a genetic program being run by some of these entities that they say that the reason for doing this is to help themselves because they reached a point in their–I don’t know if you could say development, but a point in their history, where they could no longer procreate in the normal way. That–so they’re doing this for their benefit, but they’re also doing this for our benefit, they say, and many of the children who are being born to experiencers have special characteristics. Highly intelligent, empathic, psychic, some of them speak in light languages, some of them are healers. I know some and who are highly intelligent and well adjusted, and just extraordinary people. There’s also the idea that sometimes these entities just walk into the bodies of experiencers as a dual soul connection, and Susie Hanson from New Zealand, wrote a book with Dr. Rudi Shield, who–and Dr. Shield is an astrophysicist who recently retired from the Harvard Smithsonian astrophysics laboratory. And an extraordinary book about how–when she is taken to craft, she becomes a gray. And, you know, for an astrophysicist of Dr. Shield’s standing, this is remarkable. I also talked to Stanton Friedman, who had met her and talked to her, and he told me that he thought she was the real deal.

Jim Harold 42:57
That’s–that’s quite an endorsement from Stanton Friedman, indeed, a legend in UFO studies. So if we’re talking about hybrids, do you have any speculation? Are we talking about tens? Are we talking about hundreds? Are we talking about thousands? Are we possibly talking about millions?

Kathleen Marden 43:18
I know that millions of people from around the world have been taken. Most don’t talk about it. But when I was director of the Mutual UFO networks experiencer research team, we spoke to about 100 experiencers a month from around the English speaking world, and sometimes the Spanish speaking world if we found a translator, and sometimes the Arabic speaking world as well. And, you know, so I–I don’t know for certain, but I wouldn’t doubt that there are hybrids around the world. I don’t have a negative attitude toward that, thinking that they have a mission to supplant us. I just believe that they’re attempting to move us ahead on an evolutionary scale, because we are still a very primitive species. In fact, the ETs that took me to craft told me that they had major concerns about us. That our technological development is out of sync with our spiritual growth. And when this occurs on a planet, it could lead to the disintegration of all the species on that planet. They’ve seen it happen before, and they don’t want it to happen again. This is not just for me. We had open ended questions on those studies I mentioned, and it was a message that has been passed to many experiencers.

Jim Harold 44:58
When you think about the threats to humanity, they’re numerous. We mentioned some of the others, and there’s a new one on the horizon that could be most frightening, is artificial intelligence, which probably, like most things, could be fantastic in many ways, and potentially very dangerous if mismanaged in any way. Now, you talk about, in the book, The Human Council. What is the Human Council, and can you tell us a little bit about it?

Kathleen Marden 45:29
Yes, I was a member of the Human Council. And this was an–the experiment that I spoke of earlier, a man named Kevin Briggs approached two friends of mine at the MUFON symposium in Orlando, Florida back in 2016. And later, I was invited to meet him to go out to lunch, I was speaking at the conference that year and didn’t have the opportunity to socialize, because I had a vendor table as well. And, so I did meet with them a few times. I invited them back to our house when the conversation became very interesting. And eventually, Kevin, invited us to take part in this experiment, to see what we thought about this ability that he had suddenly acquired. He was in contact with these ETs when he was eight years old. Two of them materialized in front of him. They appeared to be very tall, large humans. They frightened him greatly. Then one of the two came back, when he was nine years old, as a conscious orb. It stayed behind his curtain for a week, and communicated with him, and taught him about consciousness and astral travel. He learned to leave his body and to travel. He–when he was 14 years old, and a paper boy, was taken to craft one morning, he experienced missing time, had a little bit of conscious recall of observing what appeared to be a craft either landed or hovering over a park, that he passed on his bicycle when he was delivering papers. I did the hypnosis session with him. He gave me scientific information, as well, concerning how to stabilize elements. Element one–I think it’s 115. The one that Bob–Bob Lazar spoke about.

Jim Harold 47:54

Kathleen Marden 47:55
Um, yes. So that information was given to us as well. I passed it on to Stanton and to another scientist. And so I went very apprehensively into this study. But we–we thought, well, we’ll never talk about this, we’ll just explore to see what it is. And so we started to meet one Saturday, every month, this went on for two years, we expanded the size of the group to include skeptics, and a person who does remote viewing, and another individual who had been in the military and was an experiencer of contact as well. And so this was an opportunity to learn and then to evaluate, to acquire evidence, and then to acquire communication, knowledge, and to attempt to understand that knowledge and to determine whether or not we thought that it was truthful and real. And since it was through a type of communication that is not through normal means, I was never going to speak about it. But as I said earlier, I finally came to the point where I thought that this was so important to the world that I decided to take the risk and come forward.

Jim Harold 49:49
Now, where are you now in terms of your optimism or lack of optimism for this situation? I mean, it seemed to me, and again, I’m nowhere even a 100th as steeped as you are in all of this. It’s the old you’ve forgotten more than I’ll ever know kind of thing. But it seemed to me that as someone who was interested in the UFO phenomenon and someone who interviewed people like yourself who were real experts, for a number of years, it seemed like things were kind of stuck in the mud. And then, you know, the last three, four, five years since those New York Times articles came out that kind of kicked things off, and things really seem to be moving. Are you optimistic? Are you pessimistic? Are you neutral about where we are in terms of getting an understanding of what’s really going on?

Kathleen Marden 50:41
I’m optimistic at this point because our government is interested. And they’re telling us about that. I am concerned, because there is a negative element to this. And there is a lot of negativity in what I call the collective consciousness, which is all of the thoughts and emotions of all of the people and animals around the world. Where we’re going through difficult times. And when you have a lot of this in the collective consciousness, it reflects in what happens on this planet, in terms of things like pandemic, in things like war, for example. So I’m–that’s another reason that I wanted to come forward with this information, to encourage people to follow a path of spirituality, toward increasing our level of spirituality as a species. Of sending love, compassion, and goodness, not through necessarily speaking of it, but through our own behavior. And by impacting our environment, and everything in it. We know through scientific studies, that if you take a plant, and you water it, and you play beautiful music, and you tell–you tell it you love it, that it will grow and flourish. But if you take another plant, the same kind, and give it precisely the opposite treatment, you tell–tell it you hate it, that–and you play hateful music, then it will die. We know that this happens, we know that we can affect the cells of the human body. We can cause cancer cells to die, or we can cause them to flourish through our behavior. And because of this, I think that we need to understand that what we do impacts everyone. What we think, what we watch, our emotions impact everything in our environment. And especially at this time when we are at a very unfortunate period regarding war. We’re–the Russian dictator believes that he needs to take back the old Soviet Union and hasn’t invaded the Ukraine. I know that there are people around the world who are sending prayer, who are meditating, who are sending positive, loving thoughts because–hoping to put love into this man’s evil heart.

Jim Harold 52:21
It’s very sad situation. It’s a very sad situation. It’s nice to see the world uniting in something and in trying to combat it, but it’s a it’s a very dire and sad situation. But something that has–has not been sad has been our conversation today with Kathleen Marden, always a pleasure to speak with you, Kathleen. Please tell people where they can find this new book, Forbidden Knowledge, your other books, and connect with everything you do.

Kathleen Marden 54:40
You can purchase autographed copies, find out where I’m going to be speaking this year, read some free articles on my website, have a consultation with me. And just by going to Kathleen, K A T H L E E N–and you see it right there on the screen–dash, and all of my books are available in all formats on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and other bookstores. Thank you so much.

Jim Harold 55:11
Kathleen, thank you so much for joining us today and being a part of the program.

Kathleen Marden 55:16
My pleasure. Thank you.

Jim Harold 55:19
Indeed, always great to speak with Kathleen and always great to spend some time with you. And I hope if you enjoy the Paranormal Podcast that you will rate and review and follow or subscribe on the podcast app of your choice. That means so much. That’s largely how people find us, by seeing amongst all the paranormal podcasts out there, that ours is one of the most highly rated with great reviews. It means so much and I’d appreciate it if you take a moment out of your day and do that. And make sure that you put your two cents about how much you enjoy the show. We thank you so much. We’ll talk to you next time. Have a great week everybody and stay safe out there. Bye bye.

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