Getting Scared To Death with Dan and Lynze Cummins – Paranormal Podcast 714

Dan and Lynze Cummins from the hit horror podcast Scared To Death share some of their favorite hair raising stories and talk about being a husband/wife podcasting team!

Apple PodcastsSpotifyGoogle PodcastsiHeartRadioStitcherPandoraAmazon Music

Listen In Your Fave Podcast App

You can find Scared To Death at Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts!

You can find their YouTube channel HERE.

Thanks Dan & Lynze!

EVERLYWELL

Everlywell at-home lab tests give you physician-reviewed results and personalized insights so you can
take action on your health and wellness—all at an affordable and transparent cost.

And for listeners of the show, Everlywell is offering a special discount of twenty percent off an at-home lab test at everlywell.com/jim

TRANSCRIPT

Please note we do not guarantee 100% transcript accuracy. The below reflects a best effort. Thank you for your understanding.

—-

Jim Harold
Today, we get scared to death with Dan and Lindsey Cummins on the Paranormal Podcast.

Paranormal Podcast Announcer
This is the Paranormal Podcast with Jim Harold.

Jim Harold
Welcome to the Paranormal Podcast. I’m Jim Harold. I’m so glad to be with you once again, and we have a paranormal power couple with us today. Dan and Lynze Cummins, and they are the hosts of Scared to Death, both in podcast form and in video form on YouTube. And man, they have a hit on their hands. Now, of course Dan is no stranger to having hits. He’s had hit comedy albums. He’s been a radio and online personality stand up comedian. His popular Timesuck podcast is certainly huge hit. And a few years back, 2019, I think he and his wife Lynze, who is our guest today as well, teamed up to start the Scared to Death podcast. And they’ve been a sponsor of our Campfire show, so we thank them for that. But they are really knocking it out the park with this show. And I love to talk to these paranormal power couples. We have a few of them out there. I think of Jethro and Kat from Box of Oddities. They do a fantastic job, and our friends Jerry and Tracy Paulley from Hillbilly Horror Stories, and we’re going to have those guys on in subsequent weeks. But I thought, you know, in 2022, why don’t we do a series of shows with paranormal power couples, and we’re starting with Dan and Lynze Cummins. Welcome to the program today, guys.

Dan Cummins
Oh, thank you. Yeah. Thanks for–thanks for having us.

Lynze Cummins
Yeah, excited to be here, Jim.

Jim Harold
Well, it’s good to have you. So I got–I love origin stories. And I love to hear about how people get the idea for a podcast, and then they execute it into a very popular and well received podcast, like you guys have. So–so Dan, I know you obviously have a long term showbiz career and background. But what in the world made you go from something maybe more comedic, to–to look at something like the paranormal?

Dan Cummins
Well, you know, I loved, you know, horror stories as a kid, before I liked comedy, actually. I love doing comedy. Most of my career has been in only comedy. But you know, in the background, you know, when I was a kid, I remember like, you know, 9, 10 years old, thinking that Stephen King had the perfect career. That he you know, he got to live out in Bangor, Maine. And you know, I live in a little town in Idaho. Obviously, Bangor is a much, much bigger place. But you know, Maine and Idaho felt kind of adjacent somehow. As far as, you know, being off the grid. I’m like, “Oh, it’s cool. He gets to live in this place that is not LA or New York, and he gets to write his books.” And there–I loved him so much, then I just was always fascinated with–with horror and just love the feeling. It’s very similar to comedy where, you know, horror writing is done for a reaction. It’s just chills, and you know, and just shock, rather than laughs. And the rhythms are actually pretty similar in my opinion. And, you know, just once Timesuck was going, I did an episode on Timesuck early on, about shadow people. Another one about the Exorcism, Annalise Michelle, and about Amityville, I believe was the big three that were more paranormal. And TImesuck, it’s such a skeptical, analytical show that I didn’t enjoy picking apart the people in the stories, which is kind of the format of Time suck. I was like, “Man, it’d be so much more fun to go into these stories with a sense of wonder and a sense of like, what if they are right? What if this thing did happen? What–what’s going on here?” And it just–Timesuck didn’t feel like the right format for those kinds of shows. So I talked to Lynze, and Lynze is not the same. We watched horror movies together, you know, early on in dating and everything. But she doesn’t have the same–didn’t have the same, you know, background obsession with horror. And the premise was, Lynze gets easily scared during horror movies. And I thought it’d be fun, you know, to make it kind of something other than just straight horror, to try to scare Lynze, and I had this thought of like, well, if I can find stories and tell them and scare Lynze, I bet it’ll also scare people listening, and that’ll be fun. And that’s–that was how it was launched.

Lynze Cummins
Yeah. And I continue to be scared.

Jim Harold
Now Lynze. Well, I was gonna ask you, what is your–what is your relationship to all of this in terms of–have you always been a horror/paranormal fan? Or is it something like you kind of recoiled at and said, “I don’t like this stuff,” kind of coming along, kicking and screaming? How did you come to the material?

Lynze Cummins
Yeah, well, much like Dan as a kid, I was definitely very into it. Right? A kid of the 90s, I read all of the Goosebumps and, you know, was very into R.L. Stine and all that he had to offer, and that alone felt scary to me as a child. And then I went through, as I think most teenagers do, the phase of my life where I was like, “Okay, I’m gonna watch every horror movie that’s ever existed with my girlfriends.” Every Friday night, we were sneaking them into our friend’s basements, because our parents–I was raised very strict Roman Catholic. And so the devil and spirits, I mean, that was like the antithesis of everything I was doing in school Monday through Friday. So me and my sweet little girlfriends would somehow get our hands on R-rated horror movies, and then watch them and mess around with Ouija boards and really dive into it. And through that experience of my teenage years doing that, I fell in love with the idea of like, well, maybe there is something else out there. And then as I got a little bit older and lived on my own, I became less enthralled with it, because it’s terrifying to think about being at home with something that you can’t see. And, and then it kind of ebbed and flowed over the years. And then when Dan and I started dating, you know, as you’re figuring each other out, like, “Oh, what do you like?” You know, kind of movies, we both did like horror movies. But the older I’ve gotten, the more scared I’ve gotten, which is kind of annoying, because it’s like, I used to love to sit through a horror movie, and have a great time and enjoy being scared, and was excited by the idea of like, “I don’t know if I’m gonna sleep tonight.” And now I’m like, pushing 40 I’m thinking like, “I really need my sleep tonight. So I don’t know if I want to be scared.” So I have a different relationship with it.

Dan Cummins
I think the show ruined you. I think–I think it was, it was too much horror.

Jim Harold
(Laughs)

Dan Cummins
And it just, yeah, now it’s–she does not want to watch the horror movies with me as much.

Lynze Cummins
I don’t, I don’t or like, I’m so pathetic that it’s actually kind of annoying for Dan to sit on the couch next to me because I will quite literally pull the blanket over my head, and then just say like, “Is it over yet? Is it over yet?” And that defeats the purpose of watching a horror movie. So I’ve taken it in a different–a different space. And I’ve gotten very into my crystals, Tarot cards, the more witchy side of things and starting to get into like some tinctures and looking at it in a different space with a different approach of, “Well, if it’s out there, and I want to potentially get in touch with it, how do I also keep myself feeling safe, protected? How do I do this in a way that feels good to me, authentic to my personality?” So now we’re in very different spaces.

Dan Cummins
It’s been a fun journey.

Jim Harold
So the thing is, is you touched on something there, Dan, and I think you both touched on it, is this idea of, well, you don’t want to tear these things apart. You want to have a sense of wonder and kind of like a thought experiment. What if they are true?

Dan Cummins
Yes.

Jim Harold
And I like that approach because–I think for a long time there, and I think it’s starting to change–there was this feeling that if you had a belief or an interest in the supernatural, paranormal, and I mean, there’s–there’s stuff where, you know, maybe there’s ghosts in a case, or horror, there’s a little bit of difference there. But in general, if you believe in something like the supernatural, hold open that will sense of wonder, that possibility that you’re not too bright.

Dan Cummins
Correct.

Jim Harold
And, and–and I think it’s starting to change now, you know, and it’s a little far afield. But the UFO thing, you see the government’s coming out and saying, yeah, there might be something to this.

Dan Cummins
Right.

Jim Harold
I think people are –kind of broadened their minds, not everybody. A lot of people who consider themselves intelligent people are starting to re-broaden their mind and kind of reawaken and say, “Yeah, there might be something to this stuff.” Is that what you guys find?

Dan Cummins
I think so too. I think, you know, like, you know, some of the, you know, bigger stories, whether in UFOlogy or in paranormal lore, I mean, there have been, you know, skeptics who have, you know, been able to kind of poke a lot of holes, and there have been people who have, you know, definitely fabricated events–

Jim Harold
Sure.

Dan Cummins
–intentionally, sometimes I think, subconsciously–

Jim Harold
Yeah.

Dan Cummins
–unfortunately. And that did kind of, you know, taint the pool or, you know, just tainted the–kind of the whole genre. And, but I always just think about–I’m a numbers person. I love creative stuff, but at the end of the day, numbers are my best friends. And I love like analytics, and I love–and I just think about, you know, the totality of all of this. And it doesn’t matter if 500 people lie, it doesn’t matter if 5000, a million–

Jim Harold
Exactly. That’s right. Bingo

Dan Cummins
–people lie. You know, all that matters at the end of the day is if literally only one person is telling the truth. It opens the door to a whole nother universe of mystery. And I’ve just come across, you know, so many stories where some of them, I can mentally be like, “Okay, I don’t know, this is a fun story, but I’m pretty skeptical that this does actually happen.” But there are so many other stories where I’m like, “I don’t know how you would explain this any way but the paranormal.” And I’ve had, now personal experiences. Not much, but you know, one specifically, where I was like, “I can’t explain that any other way.” And I’ve talked to so many people, you know, who have had similar experiences. We were just at a friend’s place for New Year’s Eve. And, you know, some of the people–that was very interesting–they were at this, our friends moved into a new house–

Lynze Cummins
A new house that is a very old house, over 100 years old.

Dan Cummins
Yep, used to be doctor’s office in the basement. I mean, this is something that just happened.

Jim Harold
Interesting.

Dan Cummins
People definitely died there, there was, you know, a lot of pain there, in addition to a lot of healing, and all this stuff, and there’s this big history. And they’d had some friends who are with us for New Year’s, there were six of us. Three couples, two of the couples had met the weekend before. They were in the basement, which–where we were as well. No one else is home, all the doors are locked, all the windows are shut. And all four of them, heard simultaneously, the distinct sound of a large person walking across the living room, and then walking–and they, you know, very skeptical, especially the one person I was talking to, you know, Trevor, very skeptical. They tried to replicate it. They took turns, walking in various ways. They could not replicate it. And then the people living there since have heard other things. And they’re skeptical, and it’s like–and that’s–there’s that times millions.

Lynze Cummins
Yep, yep. Yeah, it’s pretty interesting at that house, in particular, they named the ghost Bobby. And–

Dan Cummins
Yeah.

Lynze Cummins
–because the ghost, or the spirit, whatever you like to call it, is leaving bobby pins all over the house for them.

Dan Cummins
They show up out of nowhere.

Lynze Cummins
Just in random locations.

Jim Harold
Huh.

Lynze Cummins
And it’s a male, female couple that live there. And so I was asking the female, I said, “Well, like, do you use bobby pins?” Or, you know, and she was like, “I mean, yeah, but not where you would find these. It’s not like they’re in the bathroom or the bedroom. They’re just kind of randomly, everywhere.” And the–the male counterpart, he went to try and pick up the bobby pin. And he like, it was like a force field. He couldn’t touch it. He couldn’t. I mean, it’s like–

Jim Harold
Woah.

Lynze Cummins
–he’s looking at it right in front of him. And he’s trying, and he’s like, “I can’t,” and then–talk about a numbers guy. I mean, he’s a financial planner. He does, like, church on Sunday, financial planner, the most–

Jim Harold
Right.

Dan Cummins
He’s not a ghost guy.

Lynze Cummins
–technical guy. I went home, got my pendulum, we had a little session. And he was the guy in the corner that was like, “Get out of here. This is stupid.”

Dan Cummins
And there’s so many stories like that.

Jim Harold
I, you know, I like that. I think that’s so true. It, to me, some of the most interesting stories come from skeptics.

Lynze Cummins
Agreed.

Dan Cummins
Mhmm.

Jim Harold
Because, you know, if somebody–and I’m not trying to cast aspersions–but if somebody says, “I have lunch with aliens every third Thursday,” it becomes kind of like, “Well, okay, tell me more?”

Dan Cummins
Yeah.

Jim Harold
But I mean, when somebody says, “You know, I don’t go in,” or even more, “I don’t believe in any of this stuff. But there’s one thing happened,” that, and I’ve had so many people–and on my Campfire show, that is one of the most common things I hear. Is that, “You know, I don’t have a lot of paranormal stuff happen to me. In fact, I’ve had nothing,” like, “I’ve always been interested in it,” maybe, or, “I’ve had a fascination, but nothing has happened, and this one thing has happened.” And I’ve told callers this before. I–I’ve said, and it might be a little too dogmatic. But it’s like, there’s two possibilities here. And please forgive me. I don’t mean this the wrong way. But either A, you’re lying, and I don’t believe you are, or you’ve experienced something that at least for now, we would classify as supernatural or beyond normal explanation.

Dan Cummins
Yep.

Lynze Cummins
Yeah.

Jim Harold
And I believe those, I call them head scratchers. And I think almost all of us have had those experiences in our lives.

Dan Cummins
Yeah.

Jim Harold
And Dan, you said that you’ve had–you’ve had some.

Dan Cummins
Yeah, the weird one, I mean, it sounds small at first, but it’s interesting because of the show, connected with at least two other people who’ve had this–had that same experience. One who we know outside of the show. And–but this seems so innocuous, you know, first there’s a very little thing, but the way it all unfolded, did change my–kind of opened my belief system. We were at the Rainbow Tavern–Rainbow Grill and Tavern. The Sunset Strip, and then–

Lynze Cummins
Rainbow Room.

Dan Cummins
Rainbow Room. Sorry, I always want to call it the wrong thing.

Jim Harold
Cool.

Dan Cummins
But yeah, old rock club. You know, where Lemmy from Motorhead used to hang out, and, but, you know, it has all this history. At the end of the day, it just looks like a beat-up Italian restaurant, with a fun–

Lynze Cummins
(Laughs)

Jim Harold
(Laughs)

Dan Cummins
–fun bar on the second floor. But, you know, we’re there early for dinner–

Lynze Cummins
I mean like five o’clock on a Thursday.

Dan Cummins
Yep, like an early dinner. And pretty dead. We’re waiting for our friend, Joe, to join us. So just Lynze and I. I go to use the bathroom–the bathrooms on the second floor. Walk up, there’s two people coming down as I come up. And then to my knowledge, there was no one else on the second floor. And there–there was no reason for anybody to be up there. They weren’t using it at that time. So I go into the bathroom, small bathroom. It was, you know, if my memory serves, one stall, no more than two stalls, and then two urinals. And it’s very small, so you know who else is in the room with you. And so you–I walk past the sink, sink would be on my right as I walk in, straight ahead are the two urinals. I’m using one of the urinals, have my phone out which I know is not incredibly sanitary, but I am a multitasker.

Jim Harold
(Laughs)

Dan Cummins
I’m checking emails and–and then I notice, and I’m very anal retentive about things like this. I noticed that the sink is on–the faucets, and it’s very hot. And so I have two things I thought about it. I’m the kind of person that if I walk by a sink in the bathroom, I will for sure turn it off always. It just, it shouldn’t be on, they’re wasting water, off. I don’t do that. So I think that wasn’t on when I came in. Also, I see steam coming up from the sink. I have–my brain goes this place of litigation. I’m like, why would they allow their water to get so hot? Someone’s gonna burn their hand in this crazy world we live in–

Jim Harold
(Laughs)

Dan Cummins
–they’re gonna get sued. So I have these thoughts. I’m like, that’s so odd. But also, when I came up the stairs, the two people coming down just gave me a weird, weird vibe that doesn’t happen very often to me in life. They just creeped me out. And I didn’t know why. I didn’t like the way the guy looked at me, there was something off about them. I don’t know why. So that–so that’s in my head a little bit too. And I feel like something is weird, kind of with the sink. I go, I turn it off. And then I turn it back on to wash my hands. And I can’t replicate how hot it was. And that was a very specific thing. I specifically saw steam coming out of the sink. I couldn’t get it nearly that hot. And I tried for a while, like that’s so weird. And it kind of just left me a little unsettled. Went back downstairs, went to our booth, waitress walks by. And I just asked her and I’ve literally never asked anybody anything like this before, ever in my life. And I just, I said, “Excuse me, but I was just up in the bathroom. And this is so weird. I’ve never asked anybody this. But is there any reports of like hauntings or anything at all?” And she goes, “Oh, the sink turned on by itself?”

Jim Harold
Ohhhh.

Dan Cummins
Just cut me off and went there. And then she just said, Oh, this place is totally haunted. And then she had another table and this–she just leaves, I’m like, what–I was left with this like, “What is going on?” We tell our friend Joe, he shows up shortly after that. We go upstairs after we’re done eating, try to replicate it again. Cannot do it. I talk about this on the podcast–this is right around the time we started the show. A friend of a friend this guy, Michael Tolley who was on this other–other podcast we’ve done before with Jason Ellis. His friend was like, “Oh, my god, somebody heard your show,” wrote into me, I had that same experience at the Rainbow Room. And then just a few weeks ago, a friend of ours that we know through a stand up comedy record label, who we’ve worked with in the past, he was like, “Oh, my God, I can’t believe I never told you guys before.” 10 years ago, he had the exact same experience in that bathroom. And I’ve just thought like, I know enough about plumbing, it makes no sense for somebody outside of the bathroom to be able to manipulate the pipes and the hot water valves to randomly turn–

Jim Harold
Right.

Dan Cummins
–it doesn’t make any sense. So it’s weird. Who knows why it’s happening. But I’m like, I don’t know how else to explain that. And the feeling I had in there and everything, to me, in my mind was definitely paranormal of some kind.

Jim Harold
Do you think that–and this is for both of you–do you think that by being more open to it, by doing these shows, that it’s more likely to present itself to you?

Dan Cummins
I mean, that’s what a lot of people think, you know, is that you open that door. Lynze talks about that a lot.

Lynze Cummins
Yeah, I think so. We are–the house we live in isn’t old, but it’s not like new construction. And prior to the podcast, we would, you know, we bought this house in 2015. And, you know, Dan and I, we have two kids, and it’s like, okay, like, how does this house feel? Right? When you’re house shopping? I don’t know if you house hunted–house hunted in the last decade, but, right? It’s like–

Jim Harold
Yeah.

Lynze Cummins
–okay, how does it feel in here? Same thing, like if you’re setting up your studio, you know, you can walk into a space and be like, I don’t want to be here. Well, the house that we bought, always felt great. We found out that there was a single dad that lived there, he had two kids, also his brother lived there, and the dad had a heart attack. Now we don’t know if he had a heart attack in the house, whether he died in the house or not, is to be determined. But it always felt warm and loving. Because in my opinion, that’s the energy that we also brought in, we were looking to move our family into a space that would feel good for us. Then we start this show a couple years later. And now the energy’s a little bit different in the house, where it’s like, wait, I–I’ve been seeing something out of the corner of my eye. And I don’t want to say anything because now I think like, “Am I imagining that? Am I hoping to see it for validity that I can bring to our show to tell a story?” But then Dan will say like, “I don’t know, like, the other night, I was up late working by myself and the dogs were downstairs with you. And I thought I saw something,” and I’m like, “Okay, I didn’t say anything to you because I didn’t want you to think I was nuts, that I was losing it. But this is what’s been happening to me.” And so, to go back to your question, Jim. Yeah, I absolutely think the more you’re open to it, the more likely it is to happen. To me it’s no different than like, you buy a white Ford pickup truck, and now every car you see on the road–

Jim Harold
Yep. Yeah.

Lynze Cummins
Right?

Jim Harold
Well, I gotta tell you, you know, we’ve not had a lot of that. We had a couple of other things at our old house, but nothing huge, couple of little things. But something just the other night now, and I’ve not mentioned this on any of the shows because this is the first full interview I’ve done since–since the holidays. This is literally Sunday night, I think. And we’re in this house. We moved in May. It’s a newer house. I think it was built about six, seven years ago. So–no, no excuse me, 16 or 17 years ago. And anyway, so I went to bed, my wife went to bed, we both went to bed, and then I got up about a half hour later. Couldn’t sleep, just, you know, sometimes you’re like, “I’m gonna go downstairs and just sit on the recliner and try to fall asleep there.” So anyway, I’m trying to listen to a podcast, trying to doze off, I’m almost gone. And I hear all this noise, like somebody’s upstairs. My–my two daughters are here now, one from college break, the other one graduated recently and is starting some jobs and things. And neither one of them were up. And we–both my wife and I heard all these noises, but really what made it creepy was she said, “You know, I started hearing these noises, and then someone grabbed my leg.”

Lynze Cummins
(Gasps)

Dan Cummins
Oh, my God.

Jim Harold
I’m like, “What? What?” “Someone grabbed my leg,” and I’m like, it’s got to be–and even with, you know, doing all the shows I’ve done all these years. I’m like, “Well, you probably were asleep.”

Dan Cummins
Mhmm.

Jim Harold
But part of me thought, you know, maybe it’s the house.

Lynze Cummins
Right.

Jim Harold
Again, we’ve only been here about seven months. Or maybe, you know, it’s these shows, you know, it was it. I don’t know if it was Nietzsche or whatever, “You look back into the abyss, it looks back at you,” or something like that.

Dan Cummins
Yeah, yeah.

Lynze Cummins
Yep.

Jim Harold
So, you know, it’s something, and very interesting indeed. And so are our guests, Dan and Lynze Cummins. We’re talking to them about the Scared to Death podcast and YouTube channel. We’ll be back right after this.

The Paranormal Podcast is brought to you by Everlywell. Now you know, it’s the new year, so now is the time to set yourself up for a better and brighter year. And Everlywell can help you give yourself more clarity, confidence, and well-being with over 30 at home lab tests. Everlywell at home lab tests give you physician reviewed results and personalized insights, so you can take action on your health and wellness all at an affordable and transparent cost. And with over 30 tests, you’ll be able to choose the ones that make the most sense for you. Food sensitivity, metabolism, sleep and stress and thyroid are just a few of their many options. And here’s how it works. It’s very straightforward. And it’s very simple. Everlywell ships your at home lab test straight to you with everything needed for a simple sample collection. Using the prepaid shipping label, you just mail your test back to a certified lab. In just days, your physician reviewed results and actionable insights are sent to your device. And you can share the results with your primary care physician to help guide next steps. Over 1 million people have trusted Everlywell with their at home lab testing. And I’m glad to say that I’m one of them, I took their thyroid test. And it was very easy. I took the collection, I sent it in with the postage paid by them, in the package they provided. And again within several days, the physician reviewed results right on my device. Now, I’m glad everything checked out just fine. But again, I can share those results with my physician, let them know the current status. If something had been wrong, I certainly would have called them first thing and said “Hey, there’s something going on here, something looks like it’s outside of the normal range.” Regardless, I think that it is a great service. And one that, if you are concerned about your well-being, that you really, really should look into. And we have a great deal for you. For listeners of this show, Everlywell is offering a special discount of 20% off an at home lab test at everlywell.com/jim. That’s everlywell.com/jim for 20% off your at home lab test, everlywell.com/jim. We appreciate it. We hope that you will try Everlywell, and we thank them for their support of the Paranormal Podcast.

Paranormal Podcast Announcer
If you love the Paranormal Podcast, be sure to check out Jim Harold’s Campfire where ordinary people share their extraordinary stories of ghosts, UFOs, cryptids, and terrifying encounters. Find it for free wherever you listen to this podcast. Tune into Jim Harold’s Campfire today. Now, we return to the Paranormal Podcast.

Jim Harold
Well, we are on the Paranormal Podcast, and we are joined by Dan and Lynze Cummins, and we’re so glad to have them on the show to talk about Scared to Death. And in the first segment, we talked a little bit about our personal philosophies of the supernatural and experiences and things, but I want to talk more about the show, guys. What makes a great story for Scared to Death? When you’re trying to dig up these supernatural paranormal horror gems, what do you look for?

Dan Cummins
You know, variety is a big thing, where, you know, like, I gravitate towards the–the stories that interest me the most on a scared level–because it is a two fold thing where it’s like–it’s paranormal exploration but–but with a, you know, a horror bent.

Jim Harold
Right.

Dan Cummins
The goal of each episode is to scare you. So we’re not going to spend a lot of time on stories that are just, you know, paranormal but have no elements of, you know, something scary.

Jim Harold
Sure.

Dan Cummins
We will sometimes, though, if something is a really good, like validity story, if it just like, lots of witnesses, it just really feels like it opens up the door to the paranormal in general, sometimes we will include one of those just because we feel like it adds credence to the rest of the body of work.

Jim Harold
Sure.

Dan Cummins
But generally we’re looking for something scary, and then we, you know, we vary it up where sometimes we will explore cryptids. I personally am a poltergeist fan. I love a good haunted house, you know, tale, exorcism, shadow people, black eyed children, like all the things, and then it will vary on, you know, some stories, I’m much more skeptical of others. There’ll be some stories where like, “I don’t know if this one really happened. But man, it’s a good story. I just love it cuz it’s a good scary tale.”

Jim Harold
Sure.

Dan Cummins
“And I wasn’t there. So okay, I’m gonna give them the benefit of the doubt.” Other ones we will include just because, you know, it just seems so credible in addition to being scary, I mean, I think one of the best credibility stories, I always bring this one up is Teresita Basa.

Lynze Cummins
Oh, my gosh. Do you know this Jim?

Jim Harold
I don’t think so. Tell me, tell me.

Dan Cummins
Oh, this one, it’s, it’s, you know, we have to dig around to find these. You know, because we’re doing two a week of the ones we find, plus the fan stories Lynze does, plus we’ll do bonus episodes. You know, you go through a lot of stories kind of quickly–

Jim Harold
Sure.

Dan Cummins
And so sometimes you dig a little deeper on the web. And this is 1977 I believe, if it wasn’t 77 it was 70, I think was 77 though, in Chicago. There was a nurse from the Philippines. So she moves over from the Philippines when she’s younger. She was actually a music student, Teresita Basa. She ends up going into nursing, teaching music on the side, lives alone. And unfortunately, when she’s in her 40s, I believe, she gets murdered. And the police are clueless as to who may have done it. She didn’t seem to have any known enemies. It was an interesting crime scene where she was found nude they, you know, there was the question of sexual assault. She was also, you know, stabbed several times. It was a–somebody tried to burn her body. It was a confusing crime scene, a horrific crime scene. At the time, they were trying to figure out motive. They didn’t know if anything was taken or not. It didn’t appear that the place was ransacked. Very confusing case. No suspects, no leads for the initial investigators and the case goes cold very quickly. And this is so weird. Months later, the detectives in charge of the case get a call from their, you know, Sergeant, saying like, “Hey, there’s some officers you should talk to at this other precinct.” and I–it was, it was about, I don’t know, half an hour, hour away. Maybe in that North kind of West Indiana area suburbs of Chicago. And so they call this person they’re like, “Hey, there’s a doctor you should talk to. I don’t want to give too much more details. It’s–his story is kind of wild. But I think he’s worth, you know, talking to. He seems to have some possible information about your case on Teresita Basa.” They go meet this meet this guy. And he’s a long time doctor. He starts off with, “Do you guys believe in ghosts?”

Lynze Cummins
(Laughs)

Dan Cummins
And the detectives would later say, they were like, “Oh, man,” they were so disappointed when he said that.

Jim Harold
Kook.

Dan Cummins
They’re like, “Here’s a kook. Here’s a krank. We’re wasting our time.” But they’re already there. They have no leads, no suspects, so why not hear him out? He proceeds to tell them that his wife, who was a nurse at a different hospital, other than Teresita Basa–The two had met at an orientation years earlier, but had not kept in touch, kind of the background. So this–and they’re both–the only connection other than that is they’re both Filipino. So this–the doctor says that his nurse wife, all of a sudden woke up in the middle of the night, weeks after Teresita died, starts speaking in a different voice that he had never heard from her, and claims to be Teresita Basa, and is telling him that she knows, “So and so murdered her. You have to go check it out. You have to call the police,” falls back asleep. And then he doesn’t do anything this first time, he’s like basically the next day, he’s like, “You had the weirdest dream last night.” She remembers nothing. He thought it was just a weird, I don’t know, kind of version of sleepwalking or something, sleep talking. Next week, another trance and then this time, same voice claiming to be Teresita Basa and then is angry with him. “Why didn’t you call the police?” He still thinks that it’s just his wife and he’s–he’s like, “Well, I couldn’t call the police because you didn’t give me enough information. I can’t just tell them that a ghost told me that so and so did it.”

Jim Harold
Right.

Dan Cummins
And he thinks he’s just humoring her. This is just–he’s like, “Okay, I’m going along with this weird sleep paralysis, or something’s going on here, vivid dream, whatever you want to call it,” but she proceeds then to give very specific details of, “So and so came into my house under the guise of–he was supposed to fix my TV, ended up stabbing me in the back when I turned around, tried to burn my body to make it look like there was a sexual assault but it wasn’t. Stole these things from my place, gave them to his girlfriend. You can call these five people who will verify that these things came from the Philippines. They were gifts my father. There’s no way it could have come from anyplace else. The girlfriend has them now, here are the phone numbers for these people,” like a ridiculous amount of specific details.

Jim Harold
Wow.

Dan Cummins
So specific that the police were like, “Okay, we have nothing else, let–let’s get out, get ahold of this guy bring him in for questioning.” They go to the name of–the ghost gave the doctor, who then gave the police. It was a nurse, another–male nurse at the same hospital, worked in different areas. And this guy does admit he was supposed to come fix Teresita Basa’s TV, and then he tells the police, “But then something came up at the last second. I wasn’t able to do it. I had to go fix, you know, an issue–electrical issue at my girlfriend’s place, my girlfriend’s place.” So they’re like, “Hmm.” There was–there were various things, I guess, when he was talking to police that seemed fishy. The police hold him at the precinct. Now they go talk separately to the girlfriend. And they just say, “Hey, was your boyfriend supposed to go fix somebody’s TV?” And she’s laughing, she’s like, “What? No, he can’t fix things. He doesn’t fix…” And then, “He–so he never was fixing some electrical stuff on such and such date at your place?” And she just laughed like, “No, he doesn’t know how to fix any of that stuff.”

Jim Harold
Huh.

Dan Cummins
They noticed she’s wearing jewelry.

Jim Harold
Oh boy.

Dan Cummins
And the jewelry looks exactly like the wife of the doctor explained–the doctor who then explained it, like exactly. So they’re like, “Oh my god, this is so weird.” They call the numbers the ghost had given the doctor. Every number matches up to the name described. Everybody comes in now, they bring in the–the friends of Teresita, the girlfriend, the boyfriend. They question everybody. And the people point out, “Yep, that was Teresita’s jewelry. Absolutely. 100%.” They now confront the boyfriend with this. He breaks down and says yes, “I–” he admits it. He confesses now. He says, “I did kill her.” And then he proceeds to walk them through the murder details, they didn’t know–they didn’t even know things were stolen. And it lines up exactly with the story they got from the doctor.

Jim Harold
Wow.

Dan Cummins
And the police had no clue. Last crazy detail in the story. There is a mistrial when he goes to trial. And it looks like he’s gonna get away with it. And now he’s in a holding cell or whatever, like they’re gonna have a second trial, Hung Jury, whatever, the first time. They’re worried about the case because it didn’t hold the first time because of some police procedural errors. All of a sudden, out of nowhere, he confesses to everything. And they just like, sentence him guilty. And the–and the rumor was she had–her ghost had shown up again in his cell and terrified him into confessing to her murder. It’s just–

Jim Harold
Oh, that is amazing.

Dan Cummins
And it was reported in the Chicago Tribune, it was reported in the Boston Herald. And the officers involved said, “We were not believers in the paranormal. We know how this sounds. We cannot figure out how this case was solved other than her ghost came back. We don’t know what else it possibly could be.” That’s one of my favorite stories. As far as–what could it be other than the paranormal?

Jim Harold
Yes, that’s right, that’s–that’s basically the only quote “logical” explanation, and it touched on something else I want to get your opinion on. It might be a little far afield, but it kind of plays in. I want to get your opinion cuz I’ve always wondered about this. I used to do–I was the person who stupidly did a true crime podcast before Serial, but put it behind a paywall (laughs).

Dan Cummins
(Laughs)

Lynze Cummins
(Laughs) Whoopsies!

Jim Harold
So I kind of missed out there didn’t I? I made it like a bonus for my plus club.

Dan Cummins
Okay.

Jim Harold
It’s like early version of Patriots. I’m–yeah, great idea, terrible execution. But it wasn’t as good as Serial–but–it was just an interview show with authors. So I did about probably 100 episodes.

Dan Cummins
Oh wow.

Jim Harold
So I did a lot of–I did a lot of true crime shows. And something that I always wondered, and I’ll get your opinion on it if you want to comment. You don’t have to. Okay, you know, you talk about like Ted Bundy or John Wayne Gacy or Dahmer, and you say, “Well, they’re evil.”

Dan Cummins
Yeah.

Jim Harold
But I also do believe that there’s–in most, if not all these cases, some element of mental illness, not that–

Dan Cummins
Yes.

Jim Harold
Not that those people should be let off the hook.

Dan Cummins
Correct.

Lynze Cummins
Agreed.

Jim Harold
But mental mental illness is real. But I also believe that there is an element of evil and maybe what happens is–just a theory–is that perhaps, maybe someone who is dealing with a very real mental illness, maybe something evil plays upon them to encourage them to do these horrible things.

Dan Cummins
Mhmm.

Jim Harold
And I’ve asked, you know, I don’t remember if it was an FBI person, but I interviewed a lot of law enforcement people. And these weren’t lightweights, and they weren’t fly by nighters. These people had decades of law enforcement. And I would ask them, “Do you believe evil is real?” And they, you know–you know, as a real thing, evil–

Dan Cummins
Yeah.

Jim Harold
Not just the blanket term. “Is there evil?” And they would say–most of them say, “Absolutely.” What are your thoughts?

Lynze Cummins
Yeah, we explore that as well on Scared to Seath sometimes because we also agree with you on that thought, you know. Yes, most murderers–people–Serial Killers, rapists, they are mentally ill on top of what is going on inside of them. And so we contemplate, okay, if there is already something happening inside of you, are you more susceptible to something evil getting to you? Just like how we were saying, well, the more we do these stories, the more that we’re willing to entertain the idea of that shadow in the corner of my eyes. Well, what if I wasn’t in a good place? What if I was in a dark place? What if I had an abusive childhood that set me up for a future of terrible mental illness and issues, and now I’m confronted with something evil, and I don’t have the mental wherewithal to fight it off, or to explore it, or to talk to somebody about it without being like, told, “Oh, you’re crazy,” and just being sent away? So we both believe that yeah, evil is beyond just the term of like, “Oh, he’s a bad guy.” It’s like, no, there’s more to that than what meets the eye for sure. I mean, I want to say indefinitely true. But, you know, I’m not the expert.

Dan Cummins
And there’s infamous examples about what we’re talking here. I mean, I think the–the biggest one probably Amityville. That Richard DeFeo.

Jim Harold
Yep.

Dan Cummins
That Rich DeFeo.

Lynze Cummins
Yeah.

Dan Cummins
Um, that case has always bothered me, because you can look at it as a true crime case, where a guy who did have a history, not diagnosed before, but–but a history of, you know, brooding, dark, moody, you know, troublesome quarreled, hard with the father, had some problems in the family. And then you know–so there’s–okay, you could say, like, okay, he was deemed unstable. He had made threats to the family before and then, you know, he murders his whole family, his siblings and his parents in this house. Okay, well, then, you know, it kind of lines up in some sense. But if you look at the rifle, he used, this Marlin rifle. And I’ve just–I’ve just kind of became obsessed with this for a while and would watch all these videos. And having, you know, been around guns myself, firearms myself, It’s not a quiet gun. And this is not a–this is not a 22 caliber gun. If he is shooting this gun in the house, which he did, which the forensics show that he killed them all with the same rifle. A: how did the neighbors never ever hear a single shot fired? This house was not out by itself. And B: more importantly, how did people not wake up in the house after the very first shot and scramble–

Jim Harold
Sure.

Dan Cummins
–for their lives, but their bodies were found lying in their beds, no defensive kind of wounds.

Lynze Cummins
And no drugs.

Dan Cummins
And no drugs. That’s the thing. The toxicology report came back and nothing was found in their system. And that is just one of those things. And he claimed, you know, and they tossed it out at the trial. But he claimed, you know, demonic possession was a defense strategy he tried to employ. I’m not opposed to it with him, and he does have other things going on. He is mentally ill. But you–why can’t you be both? Why can’t you be struggling with mental illness? Why can’t you–why can’t you be struggling with mental illness and be a bad dude? And also have some kind of demonic situation happen around you, or paranormal, whatever you want to call it–that pushed it over the edge into that kind of mass murder? I mean, I think something–something happened there.

Jim Harold
And I don’t think any of us are belittling, or reducing the real challenges of mental illness–

Dan Cummins
No.

Jim Harold
–and the real important–and we’re not suggesting for a minute that everybody who has mental illness is demonically possessed. I just want to be real clear on that.

Dan Cummins
No, no, of course not.

Lynze Cummins
Of course not.

Jim Harold
I just can that weird chemical reaction happen? Like, uh, you know, I think of putting different ingredients in a test tube and having it like, blow up?

Dan Cummins
Right.

Jim Harold
You know? Maybe, maybe.

Lynze Cummins
Yeah.

Dan Cummins
We just don’t know what the rules are.

Lynze Cummins
Right.

Dan Cummins
And I think–I think a lot of–I mean, we’re seeing it culturally, you know, now, but there’s–a lot of humans tend to think binary. “Well, it’s either this or it’s that.” And that’s not how the world has ever operated. It’s like there’s a huge gray area in the middle and so you can be totally not mentally ill at all and your–and your brain, chemically, is working just as a brain is supposed to, and also have some kind of paranormal thing happen. Like, why wouldn’t that be a possibility? And you could have your–have mental illness. I mean, there’s just such a wide gamut, such a huge spectrum of possibilities to existence in general. And what I like about the paranormal is, we don’t know the rules, you know, I know there’s people who are like, “You don’t even know that it exists.” Okay. But let’s say it does exist, we don’t know any of the rules–

Lynze Cummins
Right.

Dan Cummins
And–and what’s going on there and what–how things can interfere.

Jim Harold
We don’t even know the game.

Dan Cummins
Right, right.

Jim Harold
Not only do we not know the answers to the questions, we don’t even really know the questions.

Dan Cummins
Right.

Lynze Cummins
That’s right.

Dan Cummins
That’s what I love about it.

Jim Harold
And that’s the thing is that I often think that, you know, the paranormal–and we’re talking on video here, folks, you’re listening on audio. We’re not doing a video recording today. I’m holding up my iPhone, you know, my iPhone 13. And if I would have showed this to, you know, a caveman, they would’ve went, “What in the world is this thing?” What is it, Arthur C. Clarke–advanced stuff, technology is indistinguishable from magic. The whole idea that, you know, I think sometimes we get wrapped up in this idea. “Boy, we’re so smart, look at everything we can do.”

Lynze Cummins
Mhmm.

Jim Harold
You know? And the thing is, is that, yeah, and we know about a thimbles full out of like an ocean of possibilities. I mean, not that I–I love science. People say, “Well, you don’t like science.”

Lynze Cummins
Yeah.

Jim Harold
No, I love science. Could we do what we’re doing now? Could we have that dream job? You know?

Dan Cummins
Right.

Jim Harold
All of us on this call are lucky to have kind of similar situations where we can work from our home that’s not in LA, or not in New York–

Dan Cummins
Right.

Jim Harold
–and talk to thousands and thousands of people across the world. And that’s all because of science. So some people might see this as a contradiction, but God bless science.

Dan Cummins
Yeah.

Lynze Cummins
Yeah.

Jim Harold
But the point is, is that I can intellectually walk and chew gum at the same time and say, “Both things can exist.”

Dan Cummins
Exactly.

Lynze Cummins
Yeah.

Jim Harold
The supernatural and the hard sciences.

Dan Cummins
Yeah, people make those weird, hard lines where they’re like, you know, it’s such a weird thing. It’s like that classic throwing the baby out with the bathwater. It’s like, okay, you don’t like certain things of Western medicine, for example. But then why would you reject all of it? You know, and you don’t like certain things of the paranormal. Well, then why would you reject all of it? Why can’t you walk in both worlds, in three worlds, in five worlds? Or, you know, it’s like, there’s no reason not to.

Jim Harold
I’ve always said, when it comes to health care stuff, I’ve always said, “Hey, if you want to do different modalities to supplement, but don’t throw away your chemotherapy pill.”

Dan Cummins
Right.

Lynze Cummins
Oh, my gosh no.

Jim Harold
Do your western medicine. That’s why I’m very careful about medical guests.

Lynze Cummins
Yeah.

Jim Harold
It’s like if you’re saying, “Hey, you can do massage, or this or that, or acupuncture, whatever, as a supplement.” Hey, I’m on board. Let’s talk about it. If you’re saying, “Don’t go to those doctors,” it’s like, okay, well, find another show (laughs).

Lynze Cummins
(Laughs) It’s been interesting on–so when we do Scared to Death, Dan does two stories that he finds with–either on his own or we have a team of researchers behind him that help dig up those things like you’re saying, we’ve been doing it for so long. It’s like God, we have to find something new. So like, you know, things from other countries, other religions. But on the note of religion, what has been so fascinating on the second half of the show, is that I read two fan-submitted stories, and those stories for not only me, but also for Dan and an often for the fans, are the ones that are giving people the most pause. And within there, we get a lot of people who are police officers, doctors, and a lot of Mormon experiences, like very specific on the Mormon religion, because they really, you know, they’ll be on missions in different countries will experience different things. So people who do live in both worlds, they walk in both lanes, and they’re like, “Okay, listen, I was born and raised Catholic. And I know, I’m not supposed to believe that, you know, it could be anything other than the devil, but it didn’t feel scary. And I saw something and maybe it was my grandfather. And now I’m a little bit more open to it.” But that doesn’t mean that they have lost faith in their God, they just do both. And that is 100% okay. It’s something we talk about really regularly on the show.

Dan Cummins
Mhmm. I think horror is–and well, the paranormal is a–not religion, but it’s like the–for a lot of people who are not religious, it is their form of spirituality.

Jim Harold
Sure.

Dan Cummins
I feel like I fall into that camp, you know, not being dogmatic, you know, like part of a religion, but it’s like, I just love it for the same reason I think a lot of people love religion, a connection to something other than–bigger than ourselves, different. Something outside of ourselves.

Jim Harold
Yeah, exactly. I agree. Well, you guys have been very generous with your time. Could you leave us maybe with a–and it could be from either or both of you, another favorite story? And then we’ll tell everybody how to tune into all your various ventures.

Lynze Cummins
Ooh, yeah.

Dan Cummins
Do you wanna take it?

Lynze Cummins
A favorite fan story. Okay. Yes. The–there is a fan story way back in the beginning. And it is the one that I get the most emails about, like, “Hey, what episode was it?” And off the top of my head was either 14 or 17. Husband, wife, living kind of in the middle of like a nowhere, like New England-y kind of area. The wife’s brother is really close with his sister, the husband is going to go out of town, he’s gonna come stay with his sister. He gets there a few days early before the brother’s leaving. And the brother-in-law is like doing really weird things. Like, in the middle of the night, they’re finding him in the backyard digging holes. It’s like, “Why are you doing that? That’s super bizarre,” but just kind of like, “Ah, I don’t know, he’s been really stressed about work.” The husband goes off on this work trip. So now you have a brother and sister staying in the house. And they’re not hearing at all from the husband. Like, “Where is he, what’s going on?” And more or less, what happens is they can’t get ahold of him. There’s concern, worry about like, where is he. And the next thing they know he’s back at the house. Well, “What is he doing here?” He’s home from his business trip early. That doesn’t make sense. Something doesn’t feel right. As the brother and sister believe that they are seeing the husband/brother-in-law, they also get a phone call from said brother-in-law/husband, and he’s like, “Hey, my phone hasn’t been working for the past couple days while I’ve been on this trip. I don’t know why, but I just want to let you know I’m okay.” Meanwhile, they’re staring at what would appear to be a doppelganger of this man. And it’s like, what in the heck is going on? I mean, it’s–I–my body, just full body chills because one of my biggest fears is a doppelganger because then is it–is it you, my husband, sitting next to me?

Jim Harold
Yeah, exactly. The thing about dopplegangers is before I did, you know, I was familiar with the concept. But before I started Campfire, I didn’t know that people are seeing like doppelgangers every day, it seems like.

Lynze Cummins
Yeah.

Jim Harold
And one of my favorites was kind of humorous. And this goes back to the early days of Campfire, was–and wasn’t really scary. It was just one of those weird things. This family lived in a trailer, I don’t think they–it didn’t sound like they had a lot of money or whatever. And it was, I think it was a mom and a daughter. And the one day, the daughter walks in and starts cussing the mom out with a blue streak–and calling her this and that and the other thing, and then she storms down the hallway and slams her bedroom door shut. And then about five minutes later, the school bus pulls up in front of the house. The daughter gets out, walks in. She says, “Hi Mom, how you doing?” She’s like, “How am I doing? You just cursed me.” She’s like, “No, I didn’t.”

Dan Cummins
Oh my God.

Jim Harold
I’m like, what is that?

Lynze Cummins
Right.

Dan Cummins
Yeah.

Jim Harold
Yeah, that means–I mean, the world–and then another favorite one I had, and I don’t mean to take all your time.

Lynze Cummins
Oh, no, no, no, please, it’s fun.

Jim Harold
Just, we’re having a great time here. But another one. And Dave Schrader from Darkness Radio told me a similar story of–the same concept, different facts, different characters, different sexes of people. But this–this story was on Campfire and I thought this was always fascinating. Young man called in, I figure he was in his 20s, said “Something weird happened to me as a kid. Two instances. One was when I was about six, seven years old, I was walking through the hall up to the kitchen, and I saw this hooded figure who looked like he was making himself a peanut butter sandwich.”

Lynze Cummins
(Laughs) That’s great.

Jim Harold
Okay, great, but wait for it. “And then when I was about 15, 16 years old, I was in the kitchen, minding my own business, making a peanut butter sandwich. And I looked down and I saw what looked like the figure of a little boy walk–walk up, and then run back away.”

Dan Cummins
What?

Lynze Cummins
That’s wild.

Dan Cummins
That’s so weird.

Lynze Cummins
Like, like, a time jump?

Dan Cummins
And he could see himself? From both–from both perspectives?

Jim Harold
Yeah! Exactly. Exactly.

Lynze Cummins
That is a glitch in the Matrix.

Jim Harold
And then there’s another one. Another thing, another concept which I only recently, maybe in the last two years, have become familiar with, is retro causality. Are you familiar with retro causality?

Lynze Cummins
No.

Dan Cummins
No.

Jim Harold
Okay, so it’s something that you think of today–and now–I still can’t figure this out–somehow could impact your past. Like, so in other words, let’s say here I’m thinking, you know, I’m very, you know, I’m a successful mid tier podcaster, I ain’t no Joe Rogan, but I’m a successful mid tier–

Dan Cummins
Yeah, yeah,

Jim Harold
–podcaster, and I feel good that I get to do this for a living. Maybe somehow that thought, or that positive energy reached back in time and helped me get here

Dan Cummins
Weird.

Lynze Cummins
I love that.

Jim Harold
Yeah. Look it up, retro causality and it still freaks me out–it still freaks me out.

Dan Cummins
My God.

Jim Harold
So it is a wonderful, wondrous world we live in–

Dan Cummins
It is.

Jim Harold
–and two people who tried to get that across are Dan and Lynze Cummins, with their show Scared to Death, both in podcast and YouTube form. You guys have been great. I’ve had so much fun, I hope you’ll come back and do this again.

Dan Cummins
Yeah, thank you, we had so much fun too.

Jim Harold
The important question is where can people find the podcast? Where can people find the YouTube channel? It’s pretty straightforward, but can you tell us?

Dan Cummins
(Laughs) You can find Scared to Death any place you listen to podcasts. You know, we’re on all the major platforms. And then the YouTube channel is, you know, Bad Magic Productions, but you can also just, you know, YouTube search Scared to Death, and we’re lucky enough to–we’ll come up right away. And then yeah, we got over 100 episodes now, and so lots of horror if you–if you want to listen to it. I was thinking as you were asking too, last–last thing. Early episode, The Union House Missouri, the LaChance family, this haunting. That’s another one, yeah. And I apologize, it’s in the first 10, 15 episodes and, man, another one that was like one of the first ones we told that really stuck with me and scared me. Just crazy images, but yeah, if you like any of this stuff, we have stories about cryptids, shadow people, black eyed children, UFOs, abductions–those are the ones that get Lynze.

Lynze Cummins
The black children and the UFOs are my worst nightmare. Either of those things happen to me, that’s it. Just commit me because I’m never getting over it.

Dan Cummins
But yeah, so come explore the mysterious with us.

Jim Harold
Excellent, excellent. Dan and Lynze, thank you for joining us today on the Paranormal Podcast.

Dan Cummins
Thank you, Jim.

Lynze Cummins
Thanks, Jim. This was so fun.

Jim Harold
And thank you for tuning into the Paranormal Podcast. We do appreciate it. And if you enjoy what you heard on this show, certainly check out Dan and Lynze. And also while you’re at those various places, make sure to follow and review. That’s always very helpful too. We thank you so much. Happy New Year, everybody, and have a great week. We’ll talk to you next time. Bye bye.